No systemd, no elogind, no consolekit, no dbus – what did I miss?

Many reviews of linux distros you may read tell you what you need  to have (systemd – elogind – consolekit, – dbus : SECD from now on) to use the distro.  It is rarely seen or heard whether you can have an effective graphical interface, a desktop, a window manager, and not use any of the above.  Sometimes for a rarely used or never used utility you need one of those monsters, but hardly ever anyone goes out of his way to tell you “this is the ONLY instance you need this, otherwise you can do without”.  So the question on this topic should be obvious, “what can I do and have installed, or even if it is installed have it running, without the use of the SECD?”.  The less obvious question to the one questioning is “why?”.  Does anyone still ask why anymore, or have we (linux users) generally turned to fashion monkeys?There are good and valid technical and security reasons to run a display manager.  The common obvious one is ssh login to your X environment.  But do we all need a display manager?  Is the display manager, for most users, just this fancy graphical screen we enter a user name and password, select which desktop or window manager to use, and as we hit enter it vanishes till the next time we boot or login?  For some it has additional functionality.  I would speculate that 95% of DM users right now have no clue what this functionality may be other than selecting and entering a desktop as a user, because X can not be started by a user (or that is what they believe).  Have you heard of xinit and startx?  On the other hand a DM can’t be run by a user.  How about .xsession modifications?  Major distro wikis are full of information (eg: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xinitrc#Starting_applications_without_a_window_manager https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xinit).

When asking around on boards and forums, whether I need elogind or consolekit with xxx-DM, they will tell you of course you do.  Lately fewer and fewer work with CK/CK2 (consolekit), and even if they could, since others don’t, within a non-systemd distros they are all packaged to require elogind.  Since they will use elogind for some DM and Desktop that require it, they might as well use it for all and drop the redundancy of CK.  But linux was founded in redundancy and choice.  “It becomes too much work to maintain dependencies to two similar systems”.  If you look for excuses you will find some.  Some courageous souls, hopefully and eventually, will manage a reliable new login daemon better and leaner than systemd/elogind or consolekit.  There have been tries and there are current projects working on such alternatives.  Maybe s6 will come out with an s6-logind and s6-bus.

I don’t see many “experts” point out that you can do without the DM instead and therefore not use either CK2 or elogind.  Sometimes I wonder.  Are all of those guys on some kind of secret payroll to advance a dependency?  No reason to stand on this detail and speculate, just take it as “we might never know”.  To give arch some credit they have never issued their system’s image with X, or a DM, or instructed anyone what to do.  Instead they have an extensive wiki so you can do what you like.

I use Openbox, nearly exclusively, once in a while I play around with JWM but not to use it for work really, just to see how much customization can make a simplistic spartan window manager act like a full desktop (Obarun .  I have tried many tiling window managers, I tend to like the floating ones better.  I even tried bspwm which is like a gray area between a tiling manager that can also float windows).  Most floating window managers can also tile windows, jwm seems to be the easiest to set up for this, in my honest opinion (IMHO from now on).  I use no SECD.  Dbus is installed because it appears as a dependency to many pieces of software.  On the majority of systemd based distros it runs by default.  So compile X with dbus functionality built into it and X will throw some errors if running without it.  Obarun luckily doesn’t do that.

Void has a special X dbus pkg that is part of the bundle that makes X come up, and if you force remove it everything still runs fine but this dbus is absent.  If not as soon as you enter your graphic session you see dbus-launch and dbus-daemon running.  So, this is a solution for me who despises having “unnecessary” side projects of the IBM/RH teams running.

Pulseaudio, I’d rather have no audio than succumb to the “pressure”, but alsa works fine, and it is the reason that pulseaudio runs.  I have yet to see an example of pulseaudio without alsa.  But look all around the forums and you will find people asking and talking about no sound with alsa but pulseaudio works.  How can pulseaudio work without its primary dependency (alsa) not working?

Logind as part of systemd or removed and isolated as a service and library in the form of elogind (libelogind instead of systemd-libs).  Is it a good thing?  The reasons for a msg-bus and login daemon may be nobble.  How the evil team of the octopus (systemd-IBM/RH) have executed those nobble needs is another story.  S6 for example is working on its own version of s6-bus, expect it any year now.  Consolekit is no saint on its own, it is a huge ball of mesh.  If I am not mistaken it was a discontinued project of the evil team as well, but it wasn’t able to be incorporated into the systemd bundle of system-everything.  So they abandoned it and started from scratch for a login daemon that can be modular to systemd.  What would a login daemon be without its bus msg system.

Life without them (SECD and pulseaudio) can be pleasing.  Just the sense of freedom of doing all the things you want to do without them is a joy on its own.  Things that are not really missed:  Many people have been conditioned by MS-win of having “autoplay”, plugging in a cd/dvd, usb disk, and it being activated immidiately and ready to access through guys.  To do so in linux, or to replicate the functionality I should say, a bundle of software is used.  GVFS, udisks/2, udiskie, … etc.  If you don’t have those annoying gadgets can you access a disk entered into the system?  Yes.  Thanks to the very smart kernel with all this industrial firmware it is loaded with, when you plug in a medium through USB, scsi, ide, .. the kernel knows.  An id of its firmware is sent and it knows it is connected.  A complex /proc /dev entry is made for this connection, but your system will not utilize it until you choose to.  You run blkid or list the files on /dev/disk/by-(label,uuid,..etc.) and see what is physically connected.  You see your usb disk listed as /dev/sdb and its particular partition as /dev/sdb3 which you want to read and write.

Make a mount point and call it a name (usbstick)

# mkdir /media/usbstick
# mount /dev/sdb3 /media/usbstick
# ls -al /media/usbstick

Is it mounted all the time?  Make an entry in /etc/fstab and it will be available after boot is complete.  On an automounted plug-and-appear system, how do you know the medium is umounted so you can safely remove it without corrupting data?  Are you sure, because you clicked an icon on the fm that it is?  If it is so automated how do you know it is not automatically remounted?

Can I start X from console as a user with xinit/startx no SECD?

In late trends and most distros I have seen there is a small file, or needs to be, in /etc/X11 called: /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config

needs_root_rights = yes

If it contains the above line you can startx.  If your ~/.xinitrc and ~/.xsession are configured correctly it will start.  “exec jwm” or “exec openbox-session” “exec startkde” etc. is the command in .xinitrc that points X to start your window manager.  If you have installed xinit or xorg-xinit (however it is named in your distro) there should be something like /etc/skel/xinitrc which is a template to copy to your home directory and edit.  If you are not using consolekit then “exec ck-launch-session jwm” will fail.  “exec jwm” will work.

It can be done, and it can be light, and you can adopt to less automatization than major distros project as “a feature” and you might even feel more secure.  Less things running that can break, less things that your system can be attacked on, less overhead more work and play.   But pamac-gui doesn’t work by clicking on the icon, or gparted doesn’t start, or ….  this is why they were eager of getting rid of gksu, so you can’t make menu items to start software that need to run as root or some other system user.  There is an AUR pkg for gksu, there is qksu, and other alternatives in other distros, like void.

Just try and if something doesn’t work as generalized and summarized here we can find the solution together.

28 thoughts on “No systemd, no elogind, no consolekit, no dbus – what did I miss?

  1. very nice to see someone else talking about this too. my main gentoo system is built without systemd, elogind, consolekit, dbus, polkit, udev or pulseaudio. xf86 keyboard and mouse drivers left only libinput and evdev as options both of which required udev (and maybe dbus, don’t really remember since it’s been a few months that I did that) but a couple small changes in the ebuild for the xorg-drivers package fixed that. it is really nice to have a system without so many things people consider “core components” of a linux desktop yet still do everything I want to do just fine. honorable mention to kiss linux for their patches to libinput that help get rid of the udev dependency

    Like

  2. One of the first fans and frequent commenters on this site was someone nicknamed anti-dbus kill-dbus, or something along those lines. The single instance I ever use dbus is when I need to use this crappy cheap old printer that will only work with cups when dbus is running. It is not a PS printer, and without dbus it will only print one page at a time. The firmware used is a hack-job as the manufacturer doesn’t officially support any linux/unix drivers for this model. So someone hacked another model’s settings and guesstimated something functional. So with 66 I have made a tree of services that has cups and dbus together, a shortcut in my shell for print activates the tree, I print, and it goes down right after. I get some browser terminal warnings “couldn’t reach xxx-bus” so I stick my tongue out to it and it is working perfectly. More and more software (guis) spit out warning about their inability to reach the crappy snitch.

    Sytemd and all its legs and heads (the Hydra) have brought havoc into linux. Even icons swooshing around on desktop probably use dbus and logind now. I run this live image of this distro yesterday, huge image, that recently switched to OpenRC from systemd. All they did is shifted ubuntu stuff to Devuan instead of Debian and have a full plasma desktop. Honestly, I nearly threw up trying to figure out how this crap works, and I don’t get sea sick ever. All this ubuntu debian fedora sickness brought into an environment they no longer belong. NITRUX … I refuse to the person who suggested I add this to the list to add it. Just switching debian to devuan is not good enough for me. Devuan is on the list, whether I like it or not, but they did work to get where they are. OpenRC is readily available even from Debian, make it work. What a waste of bandwidth and time that was. First distro I tried that the mouse wasn’t working. Why? It is wayland. No ttys, everything is gui on tty1, there is no escape, you stop the DM you are dead, you can’t even shutdown the system.

    TRASH!!!!!

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  3. N. is not a big loss as there are already too many bloated desktop distributions who all reinvent the squared wheel poorly and worse than the previous ones. Wayland is from the same mafia as systemd. (There might be decent implementations, but those inspired Windows/Macos and their clones cannot be.)

    For writing rescue, install, etc. disks, such as the latest Obarun iso, the external medium must definitely not be mounted, so automount just causes unnecessary work.

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  4. DbusDie here, I forgot this community existed since I was tiped of the Gtk+3 ebuild of Martin Väth without this damn dbus.

    inherently say :

    “very nice to see someone else talking about this too. my main gentoo system is built without systemd, elogind, consolekit, dbus, polkit, udev or pulseaudio”

    He he you are not alone, same here 🙂

    Like

  5. Much harder to do on Debian-based distros, but I managed it on antiX-sid built from net install media. Once installed to drive, I installed xorg (I could have installed only the xserver-* packages I need, but I’m lazy), jwm, Palemoon browser (firefox-esr has dbus as a dependncy), rox-filer, leafpad so far.

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  6. Doing it on debian… I’m not masochistic, maintenaing a devuan system is already a nightmare… Just did a netinstall in a virtual qemu system :

    https://pastebin.com/SQC1MZKp

    Using Openrc or sysvinit won’t save the system if you make it an ogre.

    Well my main dbus, systemd, elogind, consolkit, udev (eudev instead) less, I haven’t much more than you : Fluxbox, urxvt, Netsurf (https://www.netsurf-browser.org), l3afpad and everything else are running “needed” are running inside a virtual system qemu, like Firefox…

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  7. The way I see it is that just because dbus is a dependency and even if dbus is installed, it doesn’t need to run for most software that are useful and demand its existence.

    Let them spit out errors that it wasn’t possible to reach dbus. Their code tells them to spit out those warnings and errors when encountered, the software (such as nearly all browsers) keep functioning. So what if softwareX.desktop doesn’t run because logind didn’t respond and elevate its rights. % sudo softwareX can still run, or sudo -u systemuser softwareX will run by this system user. Like % sudo -u debian-tor tor starts tor. No need for dbus or polkit or the damn logind.

    But people want icons on their desktop and menu/drop items to click and run and they will fail. This is not a true technical problem it is a marketing problem. You want to make “such kind of people” happy because mint and ubuntu has conditioned them to be happy about such things and make them feel like they are in ms-windows. Marketing approaches are related to the values and principles of the distro architect. Not everyone needs to incorporate the reasoning of the architect. Not everyone has to abide by her/his decisions.

    Can we make do without this marketing? Or are the marketing decisions forced upon all of us?
    Antix had proven several times, that allows us to be happy without such marketing sacrifices. Devuan, artix, and even void at a lesser extent, haven’t done so. All my browsers tested and used spit out warnings. Don’t listen to them, keep browsing 🙂

    You see a package names dbus-x11 force remove it if you can so nobody can start it, or substitute it with something silly like a face sticking out its tongue! If openrc, runit, s6, … had a bus system to substitute I wouldn’t mind using it. But this dbus is “uncontrollable” and “nearly impossible to audit and monitor”.

    That is my take on the subject.

    Like

  8. Yes, he has been toying with this for a while, at least 3 years I know of, doesn’t encourage people to try such setups, he just provides them for those that make the decision to try it. The rest of the devuan clergy doesn’t encourage such heresy.

    I see him as a good man in bad company 🙂

    fsmithred aka refracta-man

    He still includes the introduction to Fig language written by FigOS-dev who use to be here and wrote a few articles and many many comments, when we decided to split for political ideological semantic reasons. FigOS wrote this programming language for the purpose of teaching people who thought they could never be “coders” and find something easy to start writing code. So he worked on the simplest possible language that would not be too simple to do anything but not so complex as to also not be able to anything as a new student.

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  9. Hello guys!.
    i’m in gentoo, without systemd, busybox, atk_spi, dbus, elogind, consolekit, polkit, pam, pulseaudio, netwokmanager. avahi, zeroconf.
    I have managed to break dependencies by moving the ebuilds to my local tree and editing them …

    nano -w package.ebuild
    ebuild package.ebuild manifest
    eix-update
    eix package
    emerge -av1 package

    There is an ebuild out there to remove atk from x11-libs/gtk+:3 adding use -atk-bridge and patches to disable forced atk in the official ebuild.
    One problem I have is with libreoffice, is that it does not create the menu bar if I do not have dbus enabled … so at the moment it only
    I am using the icon bar, who knows how to solve this I will be grateful if you report it here.
    Start with startx and server x in user mode, without graphical login (before I used slim)

    It is comforting to know that many know what is happening, it is not necessary to explain much more.

    Like

  10. schillingklaus says:
    November 27, 2020 at 19:30

    Is there a reason to avoid busybox?

    Oh yes, there are reasons to avoid it.
    The first is that from the gentoo distro they force it for all profiles, in the file:

    $ cat /usr/portage/profiles/default/linux/packages

    Copyright 2004-2015 Gentoo Foundation.

    Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2

    This file extends the base packages file for the default profile that all

    architectures will enjoy. Please note that default is what most architectures

    will have. Some will have an selinux profile (see ${PORTDIR}/profiles/selinux).

    The idea is to only create a new family of profiles when absolutely necessary.

    #*sys-apps/busybox
    *sys-apps/iproute2
    *sys-apps/man-pages
    *sys-apps/net-tools
    *sys-apps/util-linux

    This toolbox which is supposed to be for repair, contains several executables all compiled statically
    among them there are servers ssh ftp snmtp etc etc.
    I see it as a double-edged sword, it can be used by scripts to send and receive information from the user and the system without the user having explicitly installed any server.
    It would be like having all the tools at home so when the thief arrives, he does not need to bring anything with him to achieve his tasks.
    To update I use this command string, which allows me to comment out the busybox line by putting a # in front of it:

    chattr -i /usr/portage/profiles/default/linux/packages && emerge –sync && eix-update && eupdatedb && nano -w /usr/portage/profiles/default/linux/packages && chattr +i /usr/portage/profiles/default/linux/packages && emerge -uvaDN @world

    For those of you who have already removed dbus, don’t forget to remove /etc/machine-id and /var/lib/dbus/machine-id as the package manager doesn’t usually remove them.

    So that the command “$ stat -c% W /” is not used as a tracking ID, make sure only root has permissions.
    https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/security-implications-of-var-lib-dbus-machine-id-thoughts-4175665203/page2.html

    $ whereis stat
    stat: /usr/bin/stat

    $ ls -l /usr/bin/stat
    -rwx—— 1 root root 84744 mar 10 2020 /usr/bin/stat

    If you do not use a dhcpcd server (only static ip) it would be convenient to eliminate the DUID generated by dhcpcd.

    rm -i /etc/dhcpcd.duid

    To remove google and mozilla tracking and geolocation in firefox if they compile it with gentoo ebuilds add the environment variable in your .bashrc file before compiling.
    https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=621998

    nano .bashrc
    export MOZ_API_KEY_GOOGLE=””

    updatedb

    $ locate api-google.key

    rm -i /path/to/api-google.key

    I have a few more, as I find the patches I will be posting them.

    Cheers.

    Like

  11. Your points are good. I am a bit skeptical about what you said on Pulseaudio and alsa. I am trying to make butt work and stream my radio. I suppose it is difficult but there are not any guides so it’s like swimming in the ocean.

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  12. I bring you the solution to use libreoffice without dbus, that it does not generate the menus and only one can move with the icons.
    The simple way is to choose the generic VCL by setting the environment variable SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN = “gen” in the user’s .bashrc.

    $ nano .bashrc
    export SAL_USE_VCLPLUGIN = “gen”

    In the same way, I’m still looking for a way to use the VCL gtk3, if anyone knows the way, please tell me.
    It would be good if we all publish solutions to all the weak points of our beloved os gnu.

    Cheers

    Like

  13. I’ll do some testing of this too and will make a separate article just for this.
    In the past couple of days I am investigating how dbus became a hard dependency in xorg and now it needs to be running for X to start even without a DM, simple startx/xinit, but once it does start you can kill the shit again and X stays up. This is on debian/antix sid, I don’t know if the change has flowed down to current stable and testing.

    We are being bombarded daily with more and more crap. Obarun rebuilds its own versions of X, xserver, xorg, to keep the elogind and dbus out fron anywhere that is unnecessary, but for how long will a project like this endure to be rebuilding everything I don’t know.

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  14. Hi , what would be a good Linux distribution to install that dosent have all that crap ,No systemd, no elogind, no consolekit, no dbus,no pulse audio, there al almost noane left?y like a debain based o derivated, and if posible KDE plasma , which one dou you recommend?

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  15. If it is debian based, meaning using debian repositories (like Devuan and Antix/MX) it will have all those mentioned things available. Available doesn’t necessarily mean installed, and installed doesn’t necessarily mean running.

    It is getting harder and harder but not equally hard in every distribution. With obarun there are obarun repositories and arch repositories. Neither one has elogind, and systemd and libs are blocked by obarun’s version of the pacman pkg manager. But dbus is there and ck2 is there. I’ve never used ck2 myself. Dbus is installed, because many sw pieces require it (it is a hassle to be stripping the dependency for every upgrade) but it doesn’t ever run.

    KDE plasma will not run without some login monitoring daemon. CK2 can replace elogind or systemd. Dbus must be running as well, or many plasma applications will fail.

    Even xfce and lxde (the cleanest of all desktops) require dbus. Otherwise you are looking at window managers, except for sway that is made for wayland, another can of nasty worms.

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  16. My God!! There is nothing we can do , we are sorrounded, any orher evenif is not Debian based or KDE, but you tell me that even xdce and lxde are dbus dependant, I’m out of choices I can’t use distros like kiss or that kind of concept do it your self I’m not that skilled , thanks anyway cheers

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  17. sysdfree-editor says: 20201217 at 1358

    Before I used slim, which worked thanks to consolekit, but like the good ones
    from gentoo maintainers removed consolekit and forced to use elogind
    with dbus, or systemd with dbus, I have no choice but to start using only
    startx as a user.

    This is what I do to run startx and server x as user:

    chown -v :input /usr/bin/Xorg

    chmod -v g+s /usr/bin/Xorg

    In the place of $USER put the user who is going to execute startx.

    nano /etc/udev/rules.d/75-tty-don.rules

    SUBSYSTEM==”tty”, KERNEL==”tty7″, OWNER=”$USER”, GROUP=”tty”, MODE=”0600″

    I use openrc, so I stop and remove xdm.

    rc-service xdm stop

    rc-update del xdm default

    In my home.
    $ nano .xserverrc
    exec /usr/bin/X -nolisten tcp -br -deferglyphs 16 “$@” vt7

    I use openbox ..
    $ nano .xinitrc
    #!/bin/sh
    exec openbox-session

    At the end of the boot it leaves me in vt1, so that the boot log does not delete me
    I add the –noclear parameter in the # TERMINALS section to the vt’s in my /etc/inittab

    Then I go to vt2 and login as user, from where I launch startx.
    startx looks at the $ /home/user/.xserverrc file and sees that it has to run x server on vt7.

    I do this to be able to have the server x in vt7 but see in vt2 where startx was launched
    the messages that server x emits and the programs that I run.

    My user is not in the tty group or the input group, if in the video group, as a device
    input I use evdev and not libinput.

    Dbus is not necessary, it is just a spyware implanted by force of many dollars.

    I’ll keep posting about it …
    Cheers

    Like

  18. Welcome and I’d like to publish this workaround but I have two requests.
    Since there are many anonymous posting comments here, for someone willing to contribute on a more regular basis you can use a pseudonym of choice just so we can tell which anonymous it is 🙂
    Call yourself whatever you like and use that nick to link your comments with others. I’ll call you Mapuchito otherwise and publish your work under that name 🙂

    Confirm that you are using Gentoo or one of its derivatives to which the workaround applies.
    On Obarun, thanks to the good work the dev does in rebuilding parts of x-server, unlike the way arch does, it is not that complicated to run X as user, as long as there is a:

    # /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config
    needs_root_rights = yes

    and a .xinitrc in the user’s ~/.

    I used this on other distros, artix, void, antix, refracta, in the past. Artix I believe still has two versions of xserver, the 2nd one is called rootless.
    Lately on antix sid, something changed and X will exit with error if dbus is not running. So I may try your trick there. My cheat was to start dbus (runit) startx, then kill dbus. X didn’t crash and all the applications I need worked. The good man in antiX keeps saying you don’t have to use elogind, you can remove it, but it is not advisable, because so much stuff upstream are using it. My stance is if I get to the point that I have to, I will quit.

    Dbus is not necessary, it is just a spyware implanted by force of many dollars.

    100% agreement, having it run is like knowing it is a snitch and keep inviting it to the “meetings”.

    Like

  19. re- slim.

    I have been running antiX stable version with slim and no elogind (slim on antiX supports elogind or consolekit) on one of my laptops with all the dbus binaries in /usr/lib removed.
    slim works without issue. It doesn’t really need dbus at all.

    Like

  20. I tried spacefm built from git just now on Obarun and although everything works, its preferences can’t change because dbus is not running. I wonder if it is the same on antix.

    By the way, you never responded about X not starting anymore on sid without a running dbus (sid-testing caveats). Am I just discovering something that had been there for a while or did recent upgrades made the change?

    Like

  21. sysdfree-editor says: 20201224 at 1059

    Ok, anyway I was always the one who posted with nick anonymous, but I changed to mapuchito for clarity.
    Yes, I am a gentoo testing user since 2008 to date, I edit the ebuids in my own local tree to break
    “forced dependencies”.
    For me, the distros that allow to change everything are the source-based ones … gentoo, funtoo, calculate, lfs, slackware largely, but it requires the user much more than a user and a normal administrator … requires knowledge, a lot of reading and testing and mainly not blindly trusting what newbie guide maintainers and creators offer.

    I leave you some interesting and current threads:

    Modern permissions aka why complicate simple things?
    https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1127062-highlight-.html

    Without dbus/log-in manager/other things
    https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-1126077-highlight-rubytargetsruby.html

    Running X as root
    https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8553307-highlight-.html#8553307

    Cheers

    Like

  22. No, there have been several people who commented here as anonymous, many of them just forgot to fill a nickname, and would later comment underneath saying they were the ones that just placed the comment. But writing a comment as anonymous is and will always be welcomed. IPs are not public, they are not collected here for any purpose, but this free service by wp.com does whatever they like with them. As far as I know you can place a comment with tor and scripts turned off, although I see that the gstatic.com snitch is enforced by wordpress.com more and more. I can no longer edit a post with classic editor and gstatic.com blocked. In the past month millions of sites around the net-globe have broken if gstatic is not enabled.

    Sorry for the unrelated rant, you may already know all this, but I feel obliged mentioning such tendencies for as long as I am allowed a voice.

    In the past couple of days, in another article’s comments probably, I write that if you want to make a distro on your own, gentoo is the place to start. You can do anything that is possible with any software and avoid any “enforced” policy by industrial ready to eat distros. It is better than starting from “scratch” and building piece by piece everything from upstream, at least with gentoo you can concentrate on areas of interest.

    If you can do similar things with slackware then arch may even be better, but my brief experience with slack-w is not that impressive. I wouldn’t place it in the same category as the others mentioned. I also think that the simplified model of K1ss.org is an alternative to gentoo for people with not so much experience in building and configuring packages. With crux/kwort I have little experience. With gentoo I recognize the value but due to financial shortages I’d rather keep my hw from frying and compiling every little thing that needs an update.

    I have been a member of that forum for some time, more of a reader than a writer, but there is always more interesting topics discussed there with people who are a bit more rational, than say the religious slackwarists. You point at the moon and they look at the finger!

    Like

  23. Hu
    Moderator
    Gentoo

    DaggyStyle: yes, USE=-suid produces a non-setuid Xorg, which relies on elogind (recommended by the responsible Gentoo maintainers) or on the user managing group memberships (deprecated by the responsible Gentoo maintainers) to provide the server with sufficient privilege to operate properly.

    I am not that clear what is meant by “responsible Gentoo maintainers”, to contrast the irresponsible Gentoo maintainers, or is it to contast individual repositories who are not official Gentoo maintainers?

    I hope the IBM payroll ends up in Wikileaks some day and some questions I have may be answered, till then it is all a conspiracy theory. It was a conspiracy theory in Chile that Chilean military and US special forces were going to assassinate Allente who was threatening to make ITT mines “public” and revert privacy of such resources. Responsible Marxist analysts would dismiss such conspiracy theories. But it took “9/11” 1973 for the record to be set straight.

    Sorry, I can not engage in any dispute of contrasting code produced by free independent coders and the prisoner population of an IBM sweat shop in a technical merit basis. The later could never be good in my eyes, and it will always be dangerous – hence my metaphor of the Trojan-Horse.

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  24. Might be useful to set up a separate article about pulseaudio – what benefit does it bring, what other approaches would do the same?
    I remember it made using audio over HDMI cable possible decades ago; ALSA-utils & doc were abysmally incomplete back then.
    Occasionally someone would set up a script to cope, which wouldn’t survive a version update. (Was OSS similarly incomplete?)
    (Feel free to delete this comment when/if that happens!)

    Like

  25. I don’t know anywhere enough about pulseaudio or pipewire. All I know is that pulseaudio is nothing without alsa. But you are welcome to write something and I’ll publish it under your name.

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