New discussion board since wordpress comments limit us

sysdfree discussion board

Yes on reddit, yes it has part of the negatives of social media, but so does any medium that invites open/free/equal discussion.

Yes we may have to make up rules as we go so it doesn’t deteriorate, but let’s make them together.  I say rational arguments and discussion following rational explanations, not characterization of the person saying something, but critical scrutiny of what is being said.

I propose that once an argument, idea, proposal has been made public it is not private property of the person/group that presented it.  It belongs to all of us.  Some who see it reasonable can further support it with rational arguments, some who see it as wrong can equally explain why.  Not because it came from the person that brought it, but for its content alone.

We are a systemd free linux community

Edited again: 2023-02-23

Antix is to Debian what Joborun is to Arch, and Devuan is to debian what Artix is to arch.  Such projects/distributions seem to be very promising in concept and execution.  Equally promising, if not more, is Void, Sabotage, and Kiss linux taking an independent path.  Unfortunately we can not cover the progress of too many distros and at times we may have to drop a few from the list and concentrate on the few we believe there is future and hope.  We have dropped Devuan many years ago due to serious doubts with the project’s management, its  credibility.  and now we have decided Artix and Obarun have to go too.

A new low for the systemd gang and what it may mean (libblockdev udisks2 udiskie)

WOW I can plug an external disk into my pc and it shows up on my MS look-alike filemanager right away, without even being an admin of the system!

WOW WOW I can plug an encrypted external disk into my pc and it shows up on my MS look-alike filemanager right away, without even being an admin of the system!

This linux is JUST LIKE MS-windows11!

And this is what you were after?  An open-free software system that acts and looks just like windows 10/11?

If your distro caters to morons keep expecting what it is you are getting.

If your distro doesn’t cater to morons, why keep getting what it is you are getting?

We can’t answer every philosophical question here, and we never intended, but circumstances keep drawing us back to the meaning of life.  libblockdev udisks2 didn’t change versions remained the same, but were rebuilt, why? Because the source address was changed, and also the ckecksums of the source changed, and their dependency to systemd changed, somehow. 

Venom Linux no systemd or elogind from scratch

On our strict list “sysdfree strict list of distros without any part of systemd” there are complete distros that can run without systemd or elogind (Obarun, joborun, antiX), and by complete we mean thousands of packages to choose from, and are some minimal base systems that you will have to build yourself software that will run on those bases.  Kiss, chimera, sabotage, mere, can all boot and can all build software.   (links to Venom to be found in the end of the document)

Venom is one that is becoming more and more gray, it has a base, it can boot with sysvinit scripts or with runit-init as pid1, you can have a desktop, browser, office type of apps, icons, fonts, themes, menus, all functional and ready for work.  It does provide choices of what essential parts to have or not.  We will not be judgemental of the choices, but it is surprisingly growing.  It is not also a conservative base system built with stable and tested build tools of 3-4 years in age, just because it needed to work, it is pretty close to cutting edge of upstream tools.

What does it take to form a large effective team of developers and have a professional product?

Money?  What else?  Fame, glory, power?

What motivates people to join a team to produce and construct something?

What specifically are people with a given skill see in contributing to benefit others indiscriminately?

FOSS may be the sole largest field where people as individuals or small teams contribute many many hours of their “free” time, for the benefit of anyone who wants to “consume” the product of their labor.  Sure, there may be some philanthropic activities, community gardens, bicycle co-ops and pizza co-ops, sports, theater, … but are minor to this endless contribution of open and free code consumed by millions around the earth.

Why?

Advertising policy on sysdfree (the Case of Artix and Gable)

Dear Gable

If you just wanted to place a plug for your system of choice, like any good fan-boy would, you are welcome to do so.  But when this plug (a form of an informal advertisement for free in web-land) includes inaccuracies, false characterizations, and right-out lies, you open up an area of criticism and correction of your plug that may end up as a boomerang to become a negative advertisement.  And below is your comment and source included, unaltered, unmoderated, and still waits a response.  We thought it would be a valuable separate discussion, since it is a bit off-topic to discuss other objects than the article specifies (not that we were ever so strict on this), to just speak here about Artix specifically, in contrast of its other two Arch alternatives.

Chimera Linux: turnstile replaces elogind consolekit works side by side with seatd

Short article/ Introduction to new development

turnstile replaces elogind consolekit works side by side with seatd

chimera-linux/turnstile

When elogind will either begin to fail or just not work too well without systemd, I’d like to see what those distros will do and who will they blame for their demise, or conversion to full systemd which will make them just like anything else.  Will Artix be any different than Manjaro?  Will MX be any different than mint or ubuntu?  Will void be anything different from Arch and will they abandon musl?  Will Adelie’s LXQT work without elogind or will they then decide to give LXDE a try?

With a project as promising as turnstile the real choice against systemd may be coming  really soon.

If systemd is really developing, why is elogind progressively having more and more bugs?

No this is not about “I told you so”, this is about “I am telling you now … so”.

Quote from a favorite movie “Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying”

2023 hardcore list of linux distributions without elogind and other systemd parts

Welcome antiX and Noir linux to the strict list, with edition 22 antiX is fully functional and lighter than ever without a trace of elogind!

Unfortunately the previous statement of inflating the list must be recalled due to KISS remaining untouched for a long time and Weaverkiss being terminated as a consequence to the lack of Kiss development.

        Edited:  March 2nd 2023 (replacing older strict list)

This list is going to be short and there may be a sublist of distros with a medium strict standard.  We shall explain what the object is, below the short list (which we hope the community will assist in making longer as we have not been able to currently review the work of every distro and fork).

2023 list of “healthy” hardcore distros in alphabetical order

1.    antiX —> antixlinux.com debian fork without systemd/elogind nearly as famous and popular as Debian itself now
2.    CarbsLinux —> carbslinux.org (Kiss fork with CPT pkg manager sinit/runit/busybox )
3.     Glasnost —> www.glasnost.org (Kiss fork – multi-arch tarballs)
4.     Glaucus linux –> glaucuslinux.org
   
5.     Hyperbola Linux —> hyperbola.info A libre gnu-linux  distro like debian with pacman, or arch but stable as debian in transition to a BSD system – so it will be removed again
6.     Iglunix Linux —> https://github.com/iglunix/iglunix/releases, https://iglunix.xyz. (musl busybox no-gnu + alt kernels + wayland NoX)
7.     Joborun Linux —> http://pozol.eu Arch based w/o systemd building env Obarun fork/layer [core]  runit + s6/66.
8.     Kiss Linux –> kisslinux.org independent from community influence (dormant for quite some time)
9.     Kwort Linux –> kwort.org
10.     Mere Linux —> merelinux.org  (alpha project – active 12/2022 Musl + pacman )
11.     Mutiny linux –> mutiny.red
12.     NOIR linux –> github.com/noirlinux a promising kiss-linux fork with a more aumated building system
13.     Oasislinux –> oasislinux/oasis
14.     Obarun Linux –> obarun.org (the most extensive distribution that meets the criteria)
15.     PCLinuxOS —> pclinuxos.com a long term distro with wide variety of ready made sw without elogind or systemd
16.     Sabotage Linux  –> sabotage-linux  (most inspiring commitments and goals)
17.     Superboxon Linux –> superboxon.com  Slackware 15 based BSD type init, no elogind,PAM
18.     Venom Linux —> venomlinux.org  (forked from LFS – glibc now with runit )
19. Wyverkiss —> github.com/wyvertux/wyverkiss (forked from Kiss – militant against any Gnu tools – in case Kiss turns to them)   *** terminated development as per site  ***

 

Please keep the recommendations going, for inclusion and exclusion from the list.  We can not keep and maintain installations for all of them, we count on you.

Hardcore because they seem honest and dedicated to the war against totalitarianism by IBM and other mega corporations to dominate the Open and Free software world.

2023: Linux rusting away into non-FOSS territory – Build rnote and you will see

Linux 6.2-rc2 kernel is out as the last commit in kernel.org at the start of the 2023 year.  RUST is here, the initial code-base is included in the kernel.  At least Arch seems to be disabling it for now, at the beta level at least, we shall see.

Rust is not just a language, as people commonly think, it is much more.  It is a building environment, system, and a mode change of the philosophy of building packages from source.   Rust incorporates its own git system in pulling code in from 2nd and 3rd parties.  So if you have never gotten into the real FOSS practice of auditing code before you build, try and audit this stuff.  If building in C you thought was a practice similar to building sand castles, by comparison, this is like building sand castles with quick-sand ON QUICK SAND.

On the discussion about elogind and dbus “hate”, is there reason?

A vivid discussion has broken out between members of the community, whether q66 considers her/himself one or not is not our prerogative to define, or exclude anyone, about the hardcore stance against FOSS pests such as systemd, elogind, dbus, udev, etc.  So since the topic of discussion is very specific it would have been best if a topic addressed the specific issue, which is irrelevant to whether Chimera Linux belongs on a strict list of distributions without systemd or not.  The criteria about that list are very clear.  The criteria for the “gray” list are not very clear, but nobody really cares about this sloppy list of gray categorized distros, such as void, artix, and devuan.

Joborun vs Obarun linux

The surface:

obarun  stands for OpenboxRunit … but has been the home for arch based s6 implementation with tools (currently 66) to make s6 less hostile to MOST users of linux.  Runit only lasted a few weeks before s6 was implemented and runit dumped.  Currently featuring a graphic installer of base, openbox, jwm, xfce4, and plasma desktops and a setup of s6/66 to get you going.

joborun stands for JwmOpenBoxObarunRunit, so it is everything Obarun can be, plus runit that can coexist and alternatively boot instead of s6/66, but also replaces most core Arch pkgs with ones built in vaccuum of systemd/logind/udevd.   Currently not including an installer, or an iso image, but an old fashioned tarball of the base and instructions on how to make it a bootable system within minutes.  Joborun is basically a source based distro, although it provides 2 tarballs, base system, and builder system, and binary repositories of all packages it provides source for.  You always need a binary system to build your binaries, joborun just makes the process easier and quicker, without frustrating fails.

Status and brief review

We are currently reviewing the distros on the strict list, verifying they are still actively being developed, whether they still meet our strict criteria and anything that has changed since they were first admitted to the list.

 

Is r/linux a cult of deranged hallucinogen addicts? Are they dangerous?

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/qz3ubs/systemd_as_a_whole/

If you search reddit for r/linux and systemd you will find many more threads in the “removed” section than on the visible part.  Come to think about it, if one crossposted the removed threads into a new board called r/linux-removed it may become a much more interesting board for discussion than the temple of doom, r/linux.

 

But the above is one of those rare occasions where systemd is in the title of a thread in r/linux and was not removed.  Why?  Basically because anyone wishing to voice some form of criticism over the “holly cow” of industrial/corporate/state-security-agencies linux, gets the ax permanently and can not speak.  But how can they discuss the holly cow as deranged worshipers between themselves? 

 

The thread/article and discussion is probably more interesting from a psychoanalytic perspective (psychological/psychiatric interest) than a systemd administration perspective.