We are a systemd free linux community

Edited again: 2021-07-29

Antix is to Debian what Obarun is to Arch, and Devuan is to debian what Artix is to arch.  Such projects/distributions seem to be very promising in concept and execution.  Equally promising, if not more, is Void, Sabotage, and Kiss linux taking an independent path.  Unfortunately we can not cover the progress of too many distros and at times we may have to drop a few from the list and concentrate on the few we believe there is future and hope.  We have dropped Devuan over a year ago due to serious doubts with the project’s management, its  credibility.  and now we have decided Artix has to go too.

2022 hardcore list of linux distributions without elogind and other systemd parts

        Edited: May 30th 2022 (replacing older strict list)

This list is going to be short and there may be a sublist of distros with a medium strict standard.  We shall explain what the object is, below the short list (which we hope the community will assist in making longer as we have not been able to currently review the work of every distro and fork).

2021 list of “healthy” hardcore distros in alphabetical order

1.     CarbsLinux —> carbslinux.org (Kiss fork with CPT pkg manager sinit/runit/busybox )
2.     Glasnost —> www.glasnost.org (Kiss fork – multi-arch tarballs)
3.     Glaucus linux –> glaucuslinux.org
4.     Gobo Linux —> gobolinux.org (Alternative filesystem structure source based glibc)
   
5.     Hyperbola Linux —> hyperbola.info A libre gnu-linux  distro like debian with pacman, or arch but stable as debian in transition to a BSD system – so it will be removed again
6.     Iglunix Linux —> https://github.com/iglunix/iglunix/releases, https://iglunix.xyz. (musl busybox no-gnu + alt kernels + wayland NoX)
7.     Joborun Linux —> http://pozol.eu Arch base w/o systemd building env (alpha phase) Obarun fork/layer [core]  runit + s6/66.
8.     Kiss Linux –> kisslinux.org independent from community influence
9.     Kwort Linux –> kwort.org
10.     Mere Linux —> merelinux.org  (alpha project – active again Musl + pacman )
11.     Mutiny linux –> mutiny.red
12.     Oasis linux –> oasislinux/oasis
13.     Obarun Linux –> obarun.org (the most extensive distribution that meets the criteria)
14.     Sabotage Linux  –> sabotage-linux  (most inspiring commitments and goals)
15.     Superboxon Linux –> superboxon.com  Slackware 15 based BSD type init, no elogind,PAM
16.     Venom Linux —> venomlinux.org  (forked from LFS – glibc now with runit )
17.     Wyverkiss —> github.com/wyvertux/wyverkiss (forked from Kiss – militant against any Gnu tools – in case Kiss turns to them)

Please keep the recommendations going, for inclusion and exclusion from the list.  We can not keep and maintain installations for all of them, we count on you.

Hardcore because they seem honest and dedicated to the war against totalitarianism by IBM and other mega corporations to dominate the Open and Free software world.

Is r/linux a cult of deranged hallucinogen addicts? Are they dangerous?

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/qz3ubs/systemd_as_a_whole/

If you search reddit for r/linux and systemd you will find many more threads in the “removed” section than on the visible part.  Come to think about it, if one crossposted the removed threads into a new board called r/linux-removed it may become a much more interesting board for discussion than the temple of doom, r/linux.

 

But the above is one of those rare occasions where systemd is in the title of a thread in r/linux and was not removed.  Why?  Basically because anyone wishing to voice some form of criticism over the “holly cow” of industrial/corporate/state-security-agencies linux, gets the ax permanently and can not speak.  But how can they discuss the holly cow as deranged worshipers between themselves? 

 

The thread/article and discussion is probably more interesting from a psychoanalytic perspective (psychological/psychiatric interest) than a systemd administration perspective.

 

Do you need pkexec and polkit on a WM? NO! CVE-2021-4034

Thanks to Somewhat Reticent for being always on alert and contributing:

Do you need pkexec and polkit on a WM? NO! CVE-2021-4034

Not unless you want some automated menu and icons to click on and use various user/root rights to execute a gui!  Otherwise you are “safe“.

Don’t think because RH is reporting this the only affected parties are RHEL users,  anyone who uses their systemd elogind and polkit derivatives are equally affected.

But gksu/gksudo was insecure and had to be erased from nearly every distro that is an IBM “client”.

More and more complexity is expected to avoid this.  Sudo gparted from a terminal would have been fine, but if you want to click on a gparted icon in a menu or filemanager as a user and have it execute as root, this is how much complication is added.  A logind -aemon negotiates with a polkit, through one of the layers of dbus, whether to allow you to execute something or not.  Mind sizzling ……    enterprise security in your “DESKTOP“.

CVE-2021-4034

Public on January 25, 2022

Important Impact   What does this mean?

Rating of severity:   7.8/10

Top 10 best Desktop Environments for 2022 Linux and against Linux

First we should explain the reason for the title, then we should explain why has this become a trendy catchy titling of pseudo-media, what is pseudo-media, who they serve, and how can there be real linux development without this consuming black hole?

How were desktop environments conceived and developed, and why were they developed?  Many technical reasons:

1   as hardware became quickly more able to display more complex graphics than the old text terminals, it became possible to display graphical images that weren’t drawn by grouping alphanumeric symbols together in lines, then digital drawings (CAD), then low resolution photographs that kept climbing in higher and higher levels, then video and high-fidelity audio. 

How safe are you and how much do you trust your distro?

Except for a few distros that assist their users to build everything they install from source (kiss and forks, LFS and forks, gentoo and forks, crux, exherbo, T2-sde, etc), most linux-distributions, offer binaries to be installed, usually backed up by the source code (script) building the package from either their own source code, or what we call upstream (other FOSS sources).  How do you know though, that what the source repository shows and what the binary package contains is the same?  One way is to build it with the same recipe (packaging source script) and compare the sums.  Very few people do this and in very rare and controlled environments is the product the same, meaning checksums are identical (Arch is reporting 15-20% failure to reproduce their own packages).  So what most distros do is they sign their packages and by having their public signature key, you know what they built is what you got.  But are you sure they built it right, or did they take adequate measures to make sure what they pulled from upstream to build the package is what the author really published?  How can you check?

systemd and ipv6 – why should it/they not be disabled? Ever?

This article is written on a reverse logic, starting from end and attempting to go towards the beginning, although we are not very clear on where to begin 😉

In the end of the article there is the reference article and direct quote of the error and why it is produced.  To sum it up, logind within systemd produces an error for a user process attempt to start an X session process through an ipv6 connection.  Although our allergic reaction to the fact the author on this article speaks in general about linux and displays a systemd related error, we will bypass this detail for the content’s importance.

error: Failed to allocate internet-domain X11 display socket

Now why does X get compiled with its own networking abilities?  Because “some people” like to get X access to the machine remotely.  A problematic reason on its own, but we are not here to solve all of the world’s problems.  It is systemd complaining because sshd is not working right, it prevents a remote ipv6 connection, but logind is there to make sure that a proper connection is made when it should.  Many other pieces of software have their own parts of ipv6 networking functionalities and abilities.  Hmmm,…… !!!  Scratch …scratch … why should they?  Should they not?

WHOSE PROBLEM IS IPV6 MEANT TO SOLVE?

Yours, mine, … my ISP’s, …..?   It has taken nearly 2.5 decades (since 1998) to transition from ipv4 to ipv6.

Arch No-Systemd … yes but how? Is systemd so different than ALL the other inits?

Hypothetically speaking, let us take Arch, and rebuild nearly all of it, without systemd.  What does this mean?

On any particular core, extra, community package, the minimal environment needed to build a package, incorporates systemd and its libs.  It is part of Arch base.  So systemd is present even when it is not required.  Some packages from source incorporate utilities based on systemd/libs and will utilize those in their package when present.  Sometimes it is evident, sometimes not so obvious.  So the hypothetical task is to build everything (except systemd and parts themselves) in a systemd-free environment.  See when errors arise due to the lack of it, disable systemd/logind utilities where we can, and see what arch would be like without systemd.

Can you build ARCH from source? Let’s see!

Apart from the object to build arch minimal base without systemd and its libraries, the idea or question that came to mind was whether you can build all your packages from the Arch recipes. Since Artix now is autonomous and relies on its own software base, not Arch, the same question applies, and I suppose the same applies to Manjaro. Most of the core pkgbuilds in Artix are just copies of Arch. Systemd may not be there but many of its libraries or pieces are still there. But let’s say you just want to build Arch, authentic and 100% true arch.

The short answer is NO!
The long answer is explained here:

Spyware: KDE Plasma, like Gnome, the anti-FOSS eye-candy blackmail

Non-Linux OS with extensive telemetry:
MS Windows
Apple macOS – based on Unix
Apple iOS & derivites – based on Unix
Google Chromebook ChromeOS – based on Linux
Google Android – based on Linux

Linux OS with extensive telemetry:

Pretty much any Linux with KDE-plasma or Gnome, and there are some like ElementaryOS, EndeavourOS, Fedora that may use telemetry even with LXDE or i3wm.

What ever happened to Obarun, long time no noise from it.

4 years of blogging, 4 years of Obarunning, (more than 6 for Obarun starting from Openbox and Runit) and we are all still here.  So what is there new for Obarun to talk about?

66 development, OUR instead of AUR (Obarun Community/Users Repository) is reality, new images published, and a new XMPP chatting board with room for more rooms, on Obarun’s own server.

udevd is dead, long live mdevd – libudev-zero shines bright

Getting close to our 4year birthday here and what more reason to celebrate than cutting one more tie to the IBM’s monolithic bloatware that is shoved down our throats by agents of dependence and control.

Thanks to the revamping of Kiss and its new commitment to independence, to offer a way to such independence, we noticed a tragic neglect of reality.  We started talking about independence from systemd, and all we thought it was necessary was to substitute pid1 for an alternative.  100 distros later, and many forks, seem to be systemd-free.  Some solutions pre-existed and worked, some fresher were hardly tried. Then came the substitution to systemd’s logind by consolekit2.

Then came the realization that not using systemd init, but using dbus and elogind, was the next worst thing to be doing, and while more and more non-systemd distros (on our long list) didn’t use systemd, they used – or later adopted elogind (void, slackware, and our beloved adelie, even antiX is using it here and there).  So beyond pid1 those systems were business as usual.  We then focused on the next best alternative, consolekit2 (which is recently receiving fresh attention) or not using it and dbus at all, which is fine for most of us wm, teminal, consoles users.

Now, as Kiss points out, udev is another piece that behaves as an IBM monolith in linux and it is our task to evade its dependence.  Maybe then we can set ourselves free, not so fast slick you will trip on your own myth here!  Most X-server subsystems depend indirectly to what udev provides, and IN THE WAY UDEV provides it.

Kiss K1ss linux off, https://kisslinux.org is here

https://kisslinux.org/

Kiss Linux nearly run aground by the founder’s good willing nature, and open and free spirit that was naively expected to be engulfed with respect by the community.  Kiss since day 1 was a bet, to build a hard core base proposal, lay some values and principles down, and allow the interested community to build a quilt of packages around those principles.  He (Dylan Araps) shared his project with those that became initially involved.  So what happened?  Not all those actors paid much attention to those values and principles, did things on their own violating the principles, and still wanted to call this a Kiss Linux community.  Before anyone knew it, Kiss community violating the principles was more Kiss than Kiss itself, and the community’s looser principles (or lack there of) were characterizing Kiss more than it could maintain character itself.

So after a much needed break and settling of the situation forming, the restructuring came in July 2021 as yet a new shot with stricter values and principles.