Is it the end for linux distros without systemd? Is doomsday near?

Mozilla in recent releases is making it really hard for non-systemd distros to comply.  Fake non-systemd distros using udev and elogind out of the latest systemd don’t seem to have a problem.  On their legality concept simply replacing pid1 with a different named process makes them “non-systemd”, void and artix included, and worst of all Gentoo of all fake linux-without-systemd.

Why is this happening?  Basically a paradigm shift, millennials (this is a term in the common English dictionary now), are cheap (you know what but I will refrain from using sexist work terminology) like convenience and comfort, luxury and “don’t care, don’t give a …” attitudes.  They are willing to try non-systemd distros, but want their flashy desktops, their carchy graphic DMs, they want ALL INSTALLED “apps” to start from cloudy pop-up-menus as users, hw plugged in and functional as soon as pushing the usb plug, they want their browser to display “all webpages” despite of what they ask in return (full access to your /home at least) or want a mail program like thunderbird to chat, use calendar luxuries for their appointment, … and Mozilla is handing them all to IBM for lunch.

Librewolf of all projects was perceived as a healthy secure and private fork of the mozilla firefox “trap”.  It is “community maintained”.  This close knit community though is made up exclusively of level 1 devs of major distros that ALL use systemd.  So what can you expect from them, healthy choices?  Suddenly librewolf 105.0.1 following the latest firefox will not display the prime top menu, consolekit, dbus, seatd running, no it wants its own “systemd/elogind” to run properly, to be setting up sockets and communications with other systemd users and programs.  You dare use it anyway and then decide to revert back to 104, here comes Mozilla evil, where all your bookmarks, history, tab collection, possibly user/pw db too, have been converted to the new version, add-ons/plugins etc. have all been “upgraded” and nothing reverts back.  Your option is to start from 0, reconfigure librewolf/ff settings, import all you can from an old profile, just to get to the previous working edition of librewolf.

Same goes for thunderbird 115, dare you roll back and you start from scratch.  Arch has also made a mistake here, TB needs this library called libotr not listed as a dependency but throws out non-fatal errors and warnings.  Take a deeper look in libotr and try to build it, it can’t be configured to build without systemd but has plenty of functions that come directly from it, send/recv/socket related that prevent a build from happening.  What is libotr?  It is a library that allows “off the record messaging” which is now default on TB and who knows if it can be turned off.

Using non-mozilla alternatives, based on Chrome-engine, which is a violent security violator bootstrapping itself deep into the base system, underneath X or other graphic environment, and generally using Google antyhing is beyond consideration.  Palemoon, simply doesn’t work any better than a 5yr old firefox-esr (and this is questionable).   Remember it was Google some years ago that convinced Linus to include Speck, and NSA algorithm, right into the kernel. It took 2 years of measures to assure systems were working without it.

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So what is a distro to do?  Choose no-systemd, eudev, consolekit, seatd, libudev-zero, mdevd, no modern graphic browser that allows access to common webpages, console mail systems (mutt and forks), maybe a console browser to read text only and plain html (links elinks lynx)?    If a distro chooses this route they will end up with a community of users in single/double digits at the most.  Few devs will be convinced to join such a project to help out with packaging, and we end up with something that tends to stagnate due to lack of interest and stimulation from interest.  It is always a reward for a dev to have many users, reporting bugs, fixing them and making them happier.  The rest, selling out to popular demands and millennials’ feel good is alright … no problem man … legalize it…. will join the bandwagon of IBM’s universal linux dummy terminal to state agency systems.

Is this something happening to computer/information industry alone or is it a more general pattern of deterioration of a struggling base willing to sacrifice some luxury for the “common benefit”?

Say what has the “environmental movement” turned into?  Feel good pseudo ideology, green energy, electric everything, believe in myths of alternative sustainable sources providing electricity for everything you do or see, and failing memory that the problem of the environment is not the choice of fuel or the lack of electric appliances.  A growing hostility against trees (fire hazzard, cut them all down), insects (they “may” carry a virus we don’t know of yet), microorganisms, spray entire urban and suburban areas with insecticides, rinse the soil with chemicals that kill all life-forms that are not useful to humans (or not known to be useful), use air/land/water by handing it over to mega-corps to produce more and more electricity because we just don’t have enough for our electric cars and air-conditioners.  And those are the conscious environmentalists today, riding their e-bikes 40kph or their scooters down the paths of normal bicycles and pedestrian areas.  The non-environmentalist is trully a believer in his V8 2.5ton vehicle with climate control set at 23.5 in summer 29.5’C in winter.  It doesn’t matter where and how all this electricity will come from once everyone converts to 100% electric, as long as it doesn’t pollute the “urban” skies while it is being made, and it is branded green.  Whether it takes the largest yet tropical forest uprooting to provide biofuel seeds, or nuclear, or natural gas, or biomass from deforestation.  It is green and … it is alright…!!!

A feel good disaster chasing another disaster, that of capitalism, state enforced (brutally) inequality of all sorts and forms.  Economic, social, political, …. eternal divisions among people who no longer have any common interest in deviating from the interests of mega-corporations, expressed by their federations of multi-national banking, holding governments by titanium straps (national debt) to brutally suppress any movement against them, or alter the path of the industrial development path.  A planet borrowing to create development (handovers from gov to corporations) from a future that can no longer exist.  A planet converted into a toxic desert, no form of life (except fungi spores ofcourse 😉 left and in that year government bonds will still be outstanding for a development that ended it all back when there still was a small chance of sustainability of life on the planet.

Doomsday?  You can smell it in the air, you can see it in the soil, you can taste it in the sea, river, lake, it is everywhere.  Death to those that alert you for otherwise.  The faster the development the quicker we will get there.

So using systemd, latest mozilla products, is not that bad, in a planet dying from people who just don’t care, it is not their business, they have luxuries (in their android) now, so who cares about tomorrow, … you get my drift.

The pandemic is here, it is called late (last?) stage neo-liberal capitalism, one click before ultimate fascism, is here.  The political system of proxy-representation powerless to modify economy, the economic system itself (buy your own oxygen and if you don’t have enough die miserably), the social system (the more I hurt and put down the better I am off), are the pandemic.  No cure, no vaccine, no remedy.

Is this the age of Aquarius?

It might be too late for a revolution to start even if it was possible and successful.  Reform as it appears now is an accelerant to disaster, not even slowing it down.

Green energy idiots may you rot in compost!  Your electric scooter is wired up to 200-300miles of toxic copper lines back to a toxic powerplant that sends you juice to recharge it.  You dare call this stupidity Green?  It is as green as redioactive waste.

Happy blackout you idiots!

 

 

 

 

10 thoughts on “Is it the end for linux distros without systemd? Is doomsday near?

  1. Pingback: Links 16/07/2023: Void Linux Has New Images, pfSense CE 2.7.0 Released – Sustainability Insikt

    • Yes, the entrie top (classic menu File Edit …Help) has vanished. Reverting back to 114 demands a new profile as it was all rearranged to be imported to 115.

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  2. Intense as one said, but right on point.

    I’ve exported my bookmarks, and will have to start looking elsewhere. I may have to live with reduced functionality ala Falkon (which pretty much does most of what I need).

    This whole convenience thing… people are not going to see what they’ve given up until it’s too late.

    And just like the whole climate thing, they’ll do nothing about it, other than scream “Somebody must fix this!”

    Forbid both male and female of the mentioned generation break a nail in doing something other than play games and consoom content, and make demands.

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    • People will see a branch of a tree fall in the middle of the street in front of their home, blocking the road,
      that one or two people can pull on the side, and instead they will call and wait the municipal services to come and clean up.
      Kids will twist a fire hydrant on and play with the water, then walk away, and unless the firetruck comes by nobody will touch it. Trained monkeys to never take initiative for non-private things, delegate authority and power to their “elected servants” who are always too busy serving the interests of corporations and big local businessmen.

      Unless electricity and fuel becomes unaffordable, nobody will discount consumption. People have happily allowed public lands and water bodies to be passed to private interests for peanuts or nothing, just so their taxes will not go up, and with this false hope that electricity will go down with this pseudo green eco-terror campaign. “Their government” sold out “rights” of access to public land, beach, sea, lakes, rivers, … and it was OK.

      Smart phone, smart-tv, …. what other drugs will people abuse?

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      • I see today a lot of postings on social media… well, I only use Mastodon as it had promise until last year… about Apple’s dedication to the environment.

        Fools.

        They’re selling the same convenience you mention in the main post, and a promise of environmental responsibility, just to get at people’s data. And people see them as some sort of digital savior.

        Just more selling out, so they (the people) have to do nothing.

        Sigh.

        I hope other F/OSS projects do not follow suit or Mozilla, but I fear all is lost if the corporate underlords behind larger F/OSS keep selling their digital utopia based on “convenience”.

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        • Up till the early season of linux development, although there were thousands of users, mostly on commercial/enterprise systems, the market was insignificant. From the moment it was broadcasted that linux would boot and run on any x86 machine and provide utilities similar to those offered by mac/MS, it became a growing market.

          A market is not always a buying power, it is a piece of the overall pie, even though it may offer 0 direct profits (As FOSS). The importance of this specific market is the portion of users NOT buying a software system (operating system and accessories) and while it is growing so is its importance. If for example you are a hardware manufacturer and are ready to release a new Graphics or Fast Disk system for x86, and you know that 30-40% of the market will not be interested because linux will not run with it, you take this under consideration. If it is 0.4% you care very little about it.

          Also performance wise it is indisputable that linux has power, and where power is needed and performance is the goal, propriatary systmes loose big time and invest in the lack of knowledge and experience of users (sys-admins) to choose automated lower-performance solutions with high cost redundancy. 3 MS servers can out perform 1 linux server, maybe, and need little expertise to maintain. Systemd tried to bridge this gap and continues to do so.

          There are many subtle differences in FOSS recently that are less visible to users. Licensing is getting more and more complex and with tremendous variety. The old GPL and classic BSD licensing is nearly abandoned to more complex instruments. We are not ready yet to write about this shift and what may mean for our future, but there is reason for growing complexity. In other words what is FOSS and not-so-Fossy-Foss is becoming unclear. So there is much more than the binary FOSS-Proprietary software.

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  3. I think that this is directly tied to who has been paying for Linux kernel development. Everything is tied to money. When I first started using FreeBSD and Slackware/S.u.S.E. back in 1995/1996, most Linux software was community driven. I volunteered my time translating some help files into French for FOSS projects. It was awesome.

    As of 2023, though, Linux is an entirely different ecosystem. It’s driven by money and requests for money. For example, not once have asked for donations for providing FOSS projects or help; however, today, you’ll see so-called FOSS developers including modals asking for donations or going back to the “free-mium” type of delivery. It’s definitely a paradigm shift and I do agree, it has a lot to do with generation cultural differences.

    Yet, I can see their point. For example, I spent 6+ hours today trying to get a Void Linux Full Disk Encryption install going based on their instructions. It failed miserably.

    I have:

    nvme0n1 (512GB)
    a. p1 /boot/efi
    b. p2 /
    nvme1n1p1 (2TB) /home
    /dev/sda1 (4TB ssd) /media/Working
    /dev/sdb1 (2TB ssd) /media/Videos
    /dev/sdc1-/dev/sdd1 (8TB total in LVM) /media/Storage

    This is not my first rodeo, so to speak, and I was not able to get this set up and working. I can remember doing a lot more with a lot less in the early 2000s (such as /var on a separate disk, /home on a RAID setup, et al.).

    Their instructions don’t use UUID. This was my first failure point (as I suspected, I just wanted to see if their instructions work). The /dev/sdX were assigned differently based on removing a /dev/sdeX USB.

    Okay, so I go back and try modifying for UUID, and, I got it to boot, but grub wouldn’t chain load the drives; I changed LVM LUKS encrypted drives to /dev/mapper/xxxx-root etc., still no go. I setup /dev/crypttab and made sure the changes were applied and nothing.

    So, for shits and giggles, I tried Zorin OS 16.3 (that’s what my GF uses) and had absolutely no trouble whatsoever in setting up an encrypted system like that in 1 hour. I’m currently on OpenSUSE Tumbleweed looking to install a non-systemd distro that is fairly easy to setup, for my use-case and found my way here.

    I’m not a big Arch Linux supporter, in fact I really don’t like Arch, so Obarun and Artix are off my list. I love runit, so I’m hoping I can find a decent runit offering that would work.

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