A new list of 68 distributions of Linux without systemd

321 is easy to remember sysdfree.wordpress.com/321 – the link to this list

Last edited Dev 12th 2020

Our long list of all open-source systems without systemd as init will be maintained and current (to our best efforts and continuous feedback by users and distro members) from now on.  In a way it is redundant to have a list of non-linux systems as part of the list as systemd can not be used outside linux as far as we know, as it would be redundant to have a list of musl (instead of glibc) based systems without systemd, as systemd is written based on glibc and it would be next to impossible to rewrite and build in another C library. IBM’s little trojan horse, among other problems, was ill conceived as a trojan horse to begin with.

Alphabetically ordered list of 67 linux distros w/o systemd

  1. Absolute Linux is a light-weight modification of Slackware Linux. It includes several utilities that make configuration and maintenance easier and it has many common desktop and Internet applications installed and configured with tight integration of menus, applications and MIME types. Absolute Linux uses IceWM and ROX for its window and file managers.
  2. Adélie Linux (***) is a Free, Libre operating environment based on the Linux kernel. We aim for POSIX® compliance, compatibility with a wide variety of computers, and ease of use without sacrificing features, setting us apart from other Linux distributions. We love our community and we rely on your contributions, both code and financial, to bring the best possible experience to everyone.
  3. Alpine Linux (**) is a community developed operating system designed for routers, firewalls, VPNs, VoIP boxes and servers. It was designed with security in mind; it has proactive security features like PaX and SSP that prevent security holes in the software to be exploited. The C library used is musl and the base tools are all in BusyBox. Those are normally found in embedded systems and are smaller than the tools found in GNU/Linux systems.
  4. antiX (****) antiX is a fast, lightweight and easy-to-install Linux live CD distribution based on Debian’s “Stable” branch (also offers testing and sid branches like debian does) for x86 compatible systems. antiX offers users the “antiX Magic” in an environment suitable for old and new computers. At least 256 MB RAM, 2.7 GB hard disk space is adequate for a full installation.
  5. Artix Linux (*) is a continuation of the Arch-OpenRC and Manjaro-OpenRC projects. Artix Linux offers a lightweight, rolling-release operating system featuring the OpenRC or Runit init software. Three editions of Artix are available, a minimal Base system, an edition featuring the i3 window manager and an edition which runs the LXQt desktop.
  6. Asianux is a Linux server operating system which is co-developed by Chinese Leading Linux vendor Red Flag Software Co., Ltd. and Japanese Linux vendor Miracle Linux Cooperation, aiming at the common-standard enterprise Linux platform for Enterprise systems in Asia. It provides enterprise customers with high reliability, scalability, manageability and better hardware and software compatibility. Asianux certification partner program will invite more hardware and software products to be certified on Asianux, and it will definitely help to reduce developing and certificating resources and provide Linux with high quality and low cost. Red Flag Software and Miracle will distribute and market Asianux without any modifications in each Linux distribution package in China and Japan. New products will be based on Asianux and each will be bundled with localised features in each country.
  7. AUSTRUMI (Austrum Latvijas Linukss) is a bootable live Linux distribution based on Slackware Linux. It requires limited system resources and can run on any Intel-compatible system with a CD-ROM installed. The entire operating system and all of the applications run from RAM, making AUSTRUMI a fast system and allowing the boot medium to be removed after the operating system starts.
  8. AV Linux MX edition  Long standing Debian based audio/visual producers’ special distribution, now based on MX  I went from reading their release statements, to listening to their music, took out the guitar and played along.  Its good!
  9. batocera.linux is a minimal distribution dedicated to running retrogaming software. The distribution is able to run on most desktop computers, laptops and several single-board computers, including the Raspberry Pi. batocera.linux can be run from a USB thumb drive or SD card, allowing it to be transferred between computers. batocera.linux is based on RecalboxOS.
  10. Bedrock Linux is a meta Linux distribution which allows users to utilize features from other, typically mutually exclusive distributions. Essentially, users can mix-and-match components and packages as desired from multiple Linux distributions and have them work seamlessly side-by-side.
  11. Bicom Systems‘ PBXware is a Gentoo-based single-purpose distribution that serves as a telephony platform. It supports a wide range of PSTN and VoIP technologies. Creation of enhanced voicemail, ACD queues, IVR auto attendants, conference bridges, music on hold, least-cost routing, national and global voice networks are all deployable as a single unit or redundant network.
  12. Calculate Linux is a Gentoo-based family of three distinguished distributions. Calculate Directory Server (CDS) is a solution that supports Windows and Linux clients via LDAP + SAMBA, providing proxy, mail and Jabbers servers with streamlined user management. Calculate Linux Desktop (CLD) is a workstation and client distribution with KDE, MATE or Xfce desktop that includes a wizard to configure a connection to Calculate Directory Server. Calculate Linux Scratch (CLS) is live CD with a build framework for creating a custom distribution.
  13. Carbs Linux is an in-development Linux® distribution with a suckless mindset. The base system consists of only the necessary programs to create a Linux distribution. It uses its own package manager Carbs Packaging Tools, a POSIX shell package manager forked from KISS with the tool-based approach of xbps.  By default, it comes with busybox for coreutils, bearssl for its crypto library, musl libc, and other basic utilities that are required for building new software. It has support for multiple init systems and service supervisors (sinit, busybox-init (SysVinit clone), runit-init, for init systems, and sysmgr, busybox-runit, runit, for service supervisors.
  14. CRUX is a lightweight, Linux distribution for computers running on 64-bit x86 and ARM processors. The distribution is targeted at experienced Linux users. The primary focus of this distribution is “keep it simple”, which is reflected in a simple tar.gz-based package system, BSD-style initscripts, and a relatively small collection of trimmed packages. The secondary focus is utilization of new Linux features and recent tools and libraries.
  15. Cucumber Linux aims to provide a Linux distribution that is usable as an every day, general purpose operating system. It aims to this in as minimalistic a way as possible and in a way that follows the Unix Philosophy. Cucumber Linux favors simplicity and modularity of design over simplicity of use. While developed independently, Cucumber’s design is heavily influenced by Slackware Linux.
  16. Daphile is a minimal operating system for running a digital audio player on a headless computer. The operating system and media manager can be controlled remotely using a web-based interface.
  17. Devuan GNU+Linux is a Linux distribution forked from Debian in 2015. The project’s primary goal is to provide a variant of Debian without the complexities and dependencies of systemd, an init system and services manager originally developed by Red Hat and later adopted by most other Linux distributions. Devuan’s initial beta release was made available in April 2016, together with an upgrade path from Debian 7.0 “Wheezy” and a possibility to switch to Devuan from Debian 8.0 “Jessie”. The distribution adopted Xfce as its default desktop.
  18. Dragora GNU/Linux-Libre is a distribution created from scratch with the intention of providing a stable, multi-platform and multi-purpose operating system. It is built upon 100% free software. It has a very simple packaging system that allows installing, removing, upgrading and creating packages. Dragora can be an ideal distribution for those who wish to learn how a distribution works on the inside.
  19. EasyOS is an experimental Linux distribution which uses many of the technologies and package formats pioneered by Puppy Linux. The distribution features custom container technology called Easy Containers which can run applications or the entire desktop environment in a container. Packages, desktop settings, networking and sharing resources over the network can all be controlled through graphical utilities.
  20. Endian Firewall is a Unified Threat Management (UTM) Appliance that protects networks and improves connectivity. Based on Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Endian Firewall is 100% open source and includes a wide variety of features, such as stateful inspection firewall, HTTP/FTP anti-virus, content filter, POP3/SMTP anti-virus, anti-phishing and anti-spam tools, true SSL/TLS VPN, IDS, and other features.
  21. Exe GNU/Linux is a Debian-based desktop Linux distribution. Its primary goal is to provide a Debian variant that ships with a slightly re-themed Trinity desktop environment (a fork of KDE 3), as well as several useful scripts and utilities. It offers LXDE as an alternative desktop. It uses the official Debian repositories, as well as the Trinity mirror for updating the desktop environment. In late 2017, the distribution re-based itself on Devuan, using the official Devuan repositories.
  22. Fatdog64 Linux (****) is a small, desktop, 64-bit Linux distribution. Originally created as a derivative of Puppy Linux with additional applications, Fatdog64 has grown to become a distinct, separate project while maintaining much of the style of Puppy Linux.
  23. Funtoo Linux is a Gentoo-based distribution developed by Daniel Robbins (the founder and former project leader of Gentoo Linux) and a core team of developers, built around a basic vision of improving the core technologies in Gentoo Linux. Funtoo Linux features native UTF-8 support enabled by default, a git-based, distributed Portage tree and Funtoo overlay, an enhanced Portage with more compact mini-manifest tree, automated imports of new Gentoo changes every 12 hours, GPT/GUID boot support and streamlined boot configuration, enhanced network configuration, up-to-date stable and current Funtoo stages – all built using Funtoo’s Metro build tool.
  24. Gentoo Linux is a versatile and fast, completely free Linux distribution geared towards developers and network professionals. Unlike other distros, Gentoo Linux has an advanced package management system called Portage. Portage is a true ports system in the tradition of BSD ports, but is Python-based and sports a number of advanced features including dependencies, fine-grained package management, “fake” (OpenBSD-style) installs, safe unmerging, system profiles, virtual packages, config file management, and more.
  25. Guix System Distribution (formerly Guix System Distribution, or GuixSD) is a Linux-based, stateless operating system that is built around the GNU Guix package manager. The operating system provides advanced package management features such as transactional upgrades and roll-backs, reproducible build environments, unprivileged package management, and per-user profiles. It uses low-level mechanisms from the Nix package manager, but packages are defined as native Guile modules, using extensions to the Scheme language.
  26. IPFire is a Linux distribution that focusses on easy setup, good handling and high level of security. It is operated via an intuitive web-based interface which offers many configuration options for beginning and experienced system administrators. IPFire is maintained by developers who are concerned about security and who update the product regularly to keep it secure. IPFire ships with a custom package manager called Pakfire and the system can be expanded with various add-ons.
  27. K1ss or Kiss (***)  An independent Linux(R) distribution with a focus on simplicity and the concept of less is more.  Keep It Simple Strupid Linux is a source based minimalist distribution that doesn’t take a week to install and boot.
  28. KNOPPIX is a bootable disc with a collection of GNU/Linux software, automatic hardware detection, and support for many graphics cards, sound cards, SCSI and USB devices and other peripherals. KNOPPIX can be used as a Linux demo, educational disc, rescue system, or adapted and used as a platform for commercial software product demos. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, the disc can have up to 10 GB of executable software installed on it.
  29. Kwort Linux is a CRUX-based Linux distribution that uses the GTK+ toolkit and the Openbox window manager. Its most prominent feature is a package manager, called kpkg, for retrieving packages from download mirrors.
  30. Linux From Scratch (LFS) is a project that provides you with the steps necessary to build your own custom Linux system. There are a lot of reasons why somebody would want to install an LFS system. The question most people raise is “why go through all the hassle of manually installing a Linux system from scratch when you can just download an existing distribution like Debian or Redhat”. That is a valid question which I hope to answer for you. The most important reason for LFS’s existence is teaching people how a Linux system works internally. Building an LFS system teaches you about all that makes Linux tick, how things work together, and depend on each other. And most importantly, how to customize it to your own taste and needs.
  31. LinuxConsole is an independently developed Linux live CD with different editions designed for desktops, servers, gaming consoles, and old computers. Its primary characteristics are easy installation, extensive choice of software in the form of modules, and excellent hardware detection.
  32. Minimal Linux Live is a tiny Linux distribution which is designed to be built from scratch using a collection of automated shell scripts. Minimal Linux Live offers a core environment with just the Linux kernel, GNU C library and Busybox userland utilities. This default build is just 7MB in size. Additional software can be included in the ISO image at build time using a well documented configuration file. Minimal Linux Live can be downloaded as a pre-built image, built from scratch or run in a web browser using a JavaScript emulator.
  33. MX Linux a desktop-oriented Linux distribution based on Debian and antiX, is a cooperative venture between the antiX and former MEPIS Linux communities. Contains systemd and libraries so debian desktop dependencies are satisfied but relies on antiX’s sysvinit for init and service management.
  34. Obarun (*****) is an Arch Linux based distribution featuring the S6 init software and its own 66 service management system in place of systemd. Obarun provides a live disc featuring the JWM graphical interface and a base no-X image. Utilities, such as pacopts, are included for working with Arch’s repositories, including the Arch User Repository (AUR). The installer (obarun-install) allows quick installation of JWM, Openbox, Xfce4, or KDE-Plasma graphical environments or a base non-X system and it can be run from either console or the window manager.
  35. Openwall GNU-Linux (or Owl for short) is a small security-enhanced Linux distribution for servers, appliances, and virtual appliances. Owl live CDs with remote SSH access are also good for recovering or installing systems (whether with Owl or not). Another secondary use is for operating systems and/or computer security courses, which benefit from the simple structure of Owl and from the inclusion of the complete build environment.
  36. OviOS Linux is an independent, storage OS which combines open source technologies to provide a dedicated, performance-oriented storage system. The goal is to keep OviOS Linux a pure storage, appliance-like OS. It targets users and admins who need a stable out-of-the-box iSCSI, NFS, SMB and FTP server. The distribution features a special command line shell called “ovios shell” which strives to simplify system management.
  37. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is an unofficial “libre” variant of Arch Linux. It aims to provide a fully free (as in freedom) distribution based on the packages of the Arch Linux project, with packages optimised for i686 and x86_64 processors. The goal is to give the users complete control over their systems with 100% “libre” software. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre is listed by the Free Software Foundation (FSF) as a fully free software distribution. Besides a standard installation CD image, the project also provides a live/rescue DVD image with MATE as the default desktop environment.
  38. PCLinuxOS (***) is a user-friendly Linux distribution with out-of-the-box support for many popular graphics and sound cards, as well as other peripheral devices. The bootable live DVD provides an easy-to-use graphical installer and the distribution sports a wide range of popular applications for the typical desktop user, including browser plugins and full multimedia playback. The intuitive system configuration tools include Synaptic for package management, Addlocale to add support to many languages and Mylivecd to create a customised live CD.
  39. Pentoo is a Gentoo-based Linux live CD with a selection of applications and tools designed to perform penetration testing.
  40. Pisi Linux is a GNU/Linux distribution based on the old Pardus Linux with its famous PiSi package management system. It’s an operating system for desktop computer with software for listening to music, browsing the Internet and creating documents. Pisi Linux is built from scratch on a stable base, but many core user applications, such as the Firefox web browser or the VLC media player, are kept constantly up to date. To increase the distribution’s user friendliness, Flash player and many multimedia codecs are installed and pre-configured for immediate use.
  41. Plamo Linux is a Japanese Linux distribution based on Slackware Linux. The installer, and many text-based and graphical tools have been updated to include Japanese language support.
  42. PLD Linux Distribution is a free, RPM-based Linux distribution, aimed at the more advanced users and administrators, who accept the trade-offs of using a system that might require manual tweaking in exchange for flexibility. Simultaneous support for a wide variety of architectures and non-conservative approach to RPM usage provide the users with a consistent environment on almost all available architectures.
  43. Plop Linux is a small distribution that can boot from CD, DVD, USB flash drive (UFD), USB hard disk or from network with PXE. It is designed to rescue data from a damaged system, backup and restore operating systems, automate tasks and more.
  44. Porteus is a fast, portable and modular live CD/USB medium based on Slackware Linux. The distribution started as a community remix of Slax, another Slackware-based live CD, with KDE 3 as the default desktop for the i486 edition and a stripped-down KDE 4 as the desktop environment for the x86_64 flavour. The lightweight LXDE is available as an alternative desktop environment.
  45. Porteus Kiosk is a lightweight Gentoo-based Linux operating system which has been downscaled and confined to allow the use of one application only – the Firefox web browser. The browser has been locked down to prevent users from tampering with settings or downloading and installing software. When the kiosk boots, it automatically opens Firefox to the user’s preferred home page. The browsing history is not kept, no passwords are saved, and many menu items have been disabled for increased security. When Firefox is restarted all caches are cleared and the browser reopens with a clean session.
  46. Project Trident is a desktop-focused operating system based on Void (previously Trident was based on TrueOS). Project Trident uses the Lumina desktop as well as a number of self-developed system administration utilities. The Void-based distribution is installed on the ZFS filesystem to provide snapshots and rollback features.
  47. Puppy Linux is yet another Linux distribution. What’s different here is that Puppy is extraordinarily small, yet quite full-featured. Puppy boots into a ramdisk and, unlike live CD distributions that have to keep pulling stuff off the CD, it loads into RAM. This means that all applications start in the blink of an eye and respond to user input instantly. Puppy Linux has the ability to boot off a flash card or any USB memory device, CDROM, Zip disk or LS/120/240 Superdisk, floppy disks, internal hard drive. It can even use a multisession formatted CD-RW/DVD-RW to save everything back to the CD/DVD with no hard drive required at all.
  48. RancherOS is a tiny Linux distribution that runs the entire operating system as Docker containers. This includes system services, such as udev and rsyslog. RancherOS includes only the bare minimum amount of software needed to run Docker. This keeps the binary download of RancherOS very small. Everything else can be pulled in dynamically through Docker.
  49. Redcore Linux explores the idea of bringing the power of Gentoo Linux to the masses. It aims to be a very quick way to install a pure Gentoo Linux system without spending hours or days compiling from source code, and reading documentation. To achieve this goal, Redcore provides a repository with pre-built binary packages which receives continuous updates, following a rolling release model.
  50. Refracta (**) is a Linux distribution based on Devuan GNU+Linux (a systemd-free fork of Debian), designed primarily for home computer users and also for use as a system rescue and recovery disk. It provides a simple and familiar layout using the Xfce desktop. Other desktop environments and additional software packages are available from the Devuan package repository. Besides providing a Linux distribution on a live CD, the project also develops useful tools, such as refractainstaller, refractasnapshot and refracta2usb which allow users to customize the installation and create custom live CD or live USB images.
  51. Securepoint Security Suite offers a full-featured suite of firewall tools designed for enterprisewide deployment. Not only can it protect an internal network from outside attacks, it also helps segregate parts of your internal network and define custom protection rules for each. Securepoint lets you create and manage VPN tunnels for remote users and define traffic filters, reports, and alerts for your entire network. Securepoint Freeware is a very secure and free firewall solution for protecting your Internet gateway. Securepoint can as well be used with existing firewalls and to protect interconnected locations or divisions.
  52. Slackel is a Linux distribution and live CD based on Slackware Linux and Salix OS. It is fully compatible with both. It uses the current version of Slackware and the latest version of the KDE desktop. The Slackel disc images are offered in two different forms – installation and live.
  53. Slackware Linux is an advanced Linux operating system, designed with the twin goals of ease of use and stability as top priorities. Including the latest popular software while retaining a sense of tradition, providing simplicity and ease of use alongside flexibility and power, Slackware brings the best of all worlds to the table. Originally developed by Linus Torvalds in 1991, the UNIX-like Linux operating system now benefits from the contributions of millions of users and developers around the world. Slackware Linux provides new and experienced users alike with a fully-featured system, equipped to serve in any capacity from desktop workstation to machine-room server. Web, ftp, and email servers are ready to go out of the box, as are a wide selection of popular desktop environments. A full range of development tools, editors, and current libraries is included for users who wish to develop or compile additional software.
  54. SliTaz GNU/Linux is a mini distribution and live CD designed to run speedily on hardware with 256 MB of RAM. SliTaz uses BusyBox, a recent Linux kernel and GNU software. It boots with Syslinux and provides more than 200 Linux commands, the lighttpd web server, SQLite database, rescue tools, IRC client, SSH client and server powered by Dropbear, X window system, JWM (Joe’s Window Manager), gFTP, Geany IDE, Mozilla Firefox, AlsaPlayer, GParted, a sound file editor and more. The SliTaz ISO image fits on a less than 30 MB media and takes just 80 MB of hard disk space.
  55. Smoothwall Express is a family of Internet security products, designed to defend your users and your network from external attacks. Smoothwall Express is based on the Linux operating system. Linux is the ideal choice for security systems; it is well proven, secure, highly configurable and freely available as open source code. Smoothwall includes a hardened subset of the GNU/Linux operating system, so there is no separate OS to install. Designed for ease of use, Smoothwall is configured via a web-based GUI, and requires absolutely no knowledge of Linux to install or use.
  56. Source Mage GNU/Linux is a source-based GNU/Linux distribution based on a Sorcery metaphor of ‘casting’ and ‘dispelling’ programs, which we refer to as ‘spells’.
  57. Spark Linux (***) (sinit init ssm service manager) Arch Linux without systemd, with a few lines of script for an init and another few lines of script for service management.
  58. Split Linux (****) (all void architectures – runit) images built with musl, privacy, security, encryption, and unbeatable network setup. Its own installer. (this you have to try) A++
  59. Sulinox (glibc – OpenRC + elogind) x86_64 expert distro with 4 desktops beta version (Turkish git, English documentation) base system inary pkg/mngmt for building from source.
  60. Thinstation is a modern thin client that does work on its own for basic operations like web browsing, managing removable media and printers, but rely on servers for major applications as well as administration of the clients. The clients may be diskless or boot from local media. Thinstation works as a client using X, ICA, RDP, SSH, NX, telnet, tn5250 and other protocols and works on standard PC hardware.
  61. Tiny Core Linux is a 12 MB graphical Linux desktop. It is based on a recent Linux kernel, BusyBox, Tiny X, Fltk, and Flwm. The core runs entirely in memory and boots very quickly. The user has complete control over which applications and/or additional hardware to have supported, be it for a desktop, a nettop, an appliance or server; selectable from the project’s online repository.
  62. ToOpPy Linux is a French distribution based on Puppy Linux. The project provides a lightweight distribution which includes many small utilities and can be run either from a live disc or installed on the hard drive
  63. T2 SDE is an open source system development environment (or distribution build kit if you are more familiar with that term). T2 allows the creation of custom distributions with bleeding edge technology. Currently, the Linux kernel is normally used – but we are expanding to Hurd, OpenDarwin and OpenBSD; more to come. T2 started as a community driven fork from the ROCK Linux Project with the aim to create a decentralised development and a clean framework for spin-off projects and customised distributions.
  64. Void (***) is an independently-developed, general-purpose operating system based on the monolithic Linux kernel. It features a hybrid binary/source package management system which allows users to quickly install, update and remove software, or to build software directly from sources with the help of the XBPS source packages collection. Other features of the distribution include support for Raspberry Pi single-board computers (both armv6 and armv7), rolling-release development model with daily updates, integration of OpenBSD’s LibreSSL software, and native init system called “runit”.
  65. Wifislax is a Slackware-based live CD containing a variety of security and forensics tools. The distribution’s main claim to fame is the integration of various unofficial network drivers into the Linux kernel, thus providing out-of-the-box support for a large number of wired and wireless network cards.
  66. Zenwalk Linux (formerly Minislack) is a Slackware-based GNU/Linux operating system with a goal of being slim and fast by using only one application per task and with focus on graphical desktop and multimedia usage. Zenwalk features the latest Linux technology along with a complete programming environment and libraries to provide an ideal platform for application programmers. Zenwalk’s modular approach also provides a simple way to convert Zenwalk Linux into a finely-tuned modern server (e.g. LAMP, messaging, file sharing).
  67. Zeroshell is a small Linux distribution for servers and embedded devices with the aim to provide network services. It is available in the form of live CD or compact Flash image and it can be configured using a web browser. The main features of Zeroshell include: load balancing and failover of multiple Internet connections, UMTS/HSDPA connections by using 3G modems, RADIUS server for providing secure authentication and automatic management of encryption keys to wireless networks, captive portal to support web login, and many others.
  68. 4MLinux is a miniature, 32-bit Linux distribution focusing on four capabilities: maintenance (as a system rescue live CD), multimedia (for playing video DVDs and other multimedia files), miniserver (using the inetd daemon), and mystery (providing several small Linux games). The distribution includes support for booting on UEFI-enabled machines.

63 thoughts on “A new list of 68 distributions of Linux without systemd

  1. Hey, why you haven’t added Ataraxia? 😉 Uses sinit, has minimal base.

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  2. I will answer with questions, ordered from less serious to more serious, to most serious.

    1 I didn’t know, why didn’t you tell me earlier?
    2 Because I am taraxias myself, so why did you name it something I am against?
    3 Because f….ing DW has it listed since 2017 and for not making an entry it is either a dead project or one that has not reached at least a beta level. Trident was alpha, a few days after its announcement of starting from 0 at void it was presented, reviewed, presented again when it quickly made the transition from a-lpha to b-eta, so you get what you pay for with them. Not here!
    4 Musl and sinit and I wouldn’t list it? I am even listing musl with busybox (aka Kiss) and I would leave ataraxia out on purpose? Are you talking to me? 🙂
    5 So sinit to start and runit to run? I have to see it in action. Have you tried ssm by spark?
    6 Why would you use zst and not xz to compress your archive?
    7 “Switched on elogind instead of ConsoleKit2, we need Wayland” I am disappointed already. You are half way between unix and msWindows right there. It is just as easy to slip into full systemd but then you have to KISS musl goodbye and go back to crappy glibc.
    8 I’ll give it a try, but if you want to be listed you got it, nevertheless. I WILL NOT BLACKMAIL YOU FOR ADVERTISING MONEY…. like other “linux distro watchers do”.
    9 I wonder how Obarun deals with wayland … not that they “need it” … not that they would be “obarun” if they had elogind in the horizon.

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  3. I told you 1 year ago in reddit pm
    lol
    It’s in development, I want to release tech preview 3 asap, then release candidates and final RTM
    I don’t know
    No
    Because it has good ratio and speed
    I ditched coreutils you know also I don’t want enjoy keyloggers on x11
    Nice, I’m writing installer and testing it
    ok

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  4. I was glad to see you mentioned Linux From Scratch. I built an LFS system and got it working. Believe me, that is an achievement (it took me 3 tries over the span of a week). In the process, I learned a LOT about how Linux works. I would recommend it to anyone as an educational experience. However, I would not recommend it for keeping a usable and up to date system you can use to get work done, because figuring out how to fix broken builds in updates will become a full time job.

    Since you mentioned LFS, another option worth mentioning is Buildroot. I have used this to create an ultra-small custom Linux. It’s wonderful for cross-compiling special-purpose downloadable ISOs or for powering homebrew embedded devices. For example, last week I made an ARM64 image for a Raspberry Pi 3 that can host a .NET Core C# program. It only took me a few hours to get it working. The image is 70MB! And, no, there is no systemd anywhere in sight. It uses a super-simple init system.

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  5. More distributions:

    Morpheus Linux (sinit, suckless tools, musl)
    https://morpheus.2f30.org/

    Oasis Linux (perp, suckless, musl)
    https://github.com/oasislinux/oasis

    Venomlinux (runit or bsd style, suckless tools)
    https://github.com/venomlinux

    Salix (sysvinit)
    https://www.salixos.org

    Guix (gnu shepherd daemon)(doubtfully an advantage over systemd)
    https://guix.gnu.org

    Gobo (some completely unconvential init, but almost eveyrhing unconventional,
    incl. file hierarchy
    https://gobolinux.org

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  6. HI, I just found this message and it was held up by wordpress because of “too many links in one comment”, being suspect of a spam message. I don’t mind the links, just if you don’t see a comment appear immediately after you post it, send a note that it may be held up so I can look for it.

    I am pretty sure almost all of these are on the long list of distributions, some of them are just repetitive forks of a distro, but I’ll take a detailed look tomorrow. Salix I am more familiar with, some like morpheus I am wondering why I haven’t even tried. With venom I think I had a negative experience but didn’t write anything about it.

    Thank you nevertheless. This helps.

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  7. There is a brand new Indian distro called Releax os, still in beta, with openRC as init system. Tbh I have always been wary of catchy names, and these guy is shamelessly flirting with Windows (a tutorial on Youtube where he is showing how to install the distro on a PC running..Win10??🤣, he has even an .exe installer!). However he claims to offer an independent distro (though he admits that his work is more of a patchwork of LFS, Gentoo and.. Xubuntu (!!). I could only play a little with the live iso since the graphical installer (called opportunity) is buggy and won’t detect my partitions in an UEFI environment. The distro features and undoubtly eyecandy Xfce DE, with its own applications store called Bazaar, basically a front-end for its own package manager called sys-apps. Packages are installed to an unusual path that is not /usr/ but /apps. That’s all I can say for now, I would like to know your opinion as to whether it should be worth monitoring this distro. Thanks in advance!

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  8. I have read the new posts before any older posts, whence I had not read the long list.

    Oasis is not uin the long list either. Alas, it uses Wayland, albeit not IBM’s compositor implementation (Weston) ; instead, it employs something called Velox, which seems to correspond to Dwm (Suckless x11 wm). I do not know whether velox relies on any of the logind derivatives.

    Musl’s page also lists a few more things, such as “Mere Linux”, which uses s6 + musl + pacman.

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  9. Hello, we are not ignoring your suggestions, just being busy with other urgencies and projects and haven’t had adequate time to go through the list you (Don Cross, portonesso, Jordan, and schillingklaus) have provided. Ataraxia was added and tested, a review is pending, as is an unfortunate comparison with Kiss 🙂

    If they are linux and are not using systemd and are not on the list they will be added, despite of any reservations we may have had in the past or still have. Now if they are devuan DE/WM flavors made with Refracta and are already listed in the long list of all systems as a devuan fork, it will just add noise to this list. Trident and Split are Void forks, but they are distinct distributions, with tons of “system” work not DE themes, and we believe they deserve their equal status among distributions, as Obarun, Spark, Hyperbola, Parabola, and Artix are in a way Arch forks, but are distributions.

    We have an article about the spyware INTEL ME and AMD PSP technologies we have been meaning to publish, still need some additional contributions by another member, and it has been frozen for a couple of weeks.

    But don’t give up in contributing and suggesting … we are here still.

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  10. CarbsLinux is not present in the long list, either. It uses sinit, busybox, or runit.

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  11. Thank you Jordan, I tried contacting the author of Ataraxia, who had contacted me just a couple months ago about why was his distro on the long list and not on the short list, and I made sure it was in both, and asked him: “I was under the impression that systemd couldn’t be built in MUSL, how is this achieved?”, and I got a really short answer: “..patching..”.

    As we see, creating a distro without systemd is not that hard, maintaining a commitment to not use systemd is a different story. The vast majority how adopted elogind as the easy way to make all desktops work without systemd, by substituting a significant portion of it as a mechanism despite of init and service management.

    If we were to create a list of distros without systemd or elogind and a commitment to block them, the list would be short. As far as I know it is Obarun and Kiss. Maybe this topic should be published here as a lure of anyone we have mistakenly left out of this short list.

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  12. Thank you, removed, sadly. Sadly because they had both sinit and runit, the world’s simplest and most effective init systems. At least Spark-Linux is still alive adding ssm to sinit to make it the world’s simplext service supervision/management system.

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  13. Added

    Carbs Linux is an in-development Linux® distribution with a suckless mindset. The base system consists of only the necessary programs to create a Linux distribution. It uses its own package manager Carbs Packaging Tools, a POSIX shell package manager forked from KISS with the tool-based approach of xbps.  By default, it comes with busybox for coreutils, bearssl for its crypto library, musl libc, and other basic utilities that are required for building new software. It has support for multiple init systems and service supervisors (sinit, busybox-init (SysVinit clone), runit-init, for init systems, and sysmgr, busybox-runit, runit, for service supervisors.

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  14. I have not yet understood the asterisks. Is it something like “5 asterisks maximal. One asterisk off for the presence of elogind, one asterisk off for zstd-based packages, one for dbus, one for pulseaudio, one for ahavi, and so on?

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  15. If you have a system to propose I am open to discussion. As of now it is just something to draw attention to a distribution that is perceived as “interesting”.

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  16. On the waitinglist of distrowatch, I found something called SnakeWare. Its userland is python all the way down (so little in the ways of POSIX-like userland).

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  17. Not on long or short list: LigurOS, a derivative of Gentoo. Uses Openrc.

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  18. Not in long list: Virage, a Devuan derivative for the niche purpose of audio production. Uses sysvinit.

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  19. And there’s another not yet mentioned Devuan derivative for a niche use case: PsychoOS, dedicated to retrophiles. (whatever that is…)

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  20. perhaps my previous message was held up by wordpress because of “too many links in one comment”, just like schillingklaus’ one on August 5, 2020 at 16:29

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  21. And then it held the 2nd message because of the 1st due to the same IP??? It wasn’t sent to spam, they were both held in pending, sorry. The errors though are less than 1/100, so we will have to live with it.

    Give me some time to make the corrections, too many non-linux priorities to attend.

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  22. There’s also NodeOs, with a userland entirely in Javascript (nodejs).

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  23. Finally I managed to setup a releax os usable installation, thanks to the support of the dev, a very nice and helpful guy. First look: very beautiful, colorful xfce desktop, the system is based on openRC as init, elogind and glibc. Just another distro? Maybe, but at least it has its own package installer with a front-end (a software center called Bazaar) and an unusual specific path where apps are installed (the “apps” folder, something like Gobo Linux). However, this distro still needs lot of polishing. The installer is buggy, I chose US English and my time zone but I ended up with an Asian localization and IN English as default language. On every reboot lightdm tried to add a new user, the suggested fix was to reinstall the desktop manager. A lot of broken symlinks are scattered everywhere, I just managed to fix one (unsurprisingly, “localtime” file in /etc). Another unpleasant detail is a broken rendering of unicode symbols: the bottom dock-like panel icons shows a preview thumbnail with an unicode box instead of the “X” close button. Thunar was unable to mount ntfs partitions, even after installing ntfs-3g, the dev told me that I had to create a specific symlink to get it working. Finally, the choice of the packages in the software center was kind of questionable: the chinese commercial office suite WPS, spyware like Steam and Discord…not to mention the presence of WSL files in their downloads page.
    Only time will tell if releax os won’t just be a short-lived funny student’s experiment, but some current choices would definitively cut out the most hardcore Linux users, though I understand that they could help a more graceful transition from Windows.

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  24. Pingback: Releax OS review | systemd-free linux community

  25. Nitrux, although based on Ubuntu, recently switched from systemd to openrc. It uses the calamares installer and some KDE.

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  26. I think the shite has begun to hit the fan …

    There is this big German commercial server solutions corp who had been using Ubuntu and have had enough.
    They managed to make s6 work. One of the comments from their engineer informally announcing the move for 16 and 20 was:

    ” The pain we had with systemd, journald and so on was too much.”

    I’ll look into making a nitrux entry within a day or two.

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  27. Have you tried Nitrux? I did. I don’t think this pathetic system fits in this list, I don’t think it belongs to any linux list. These people are trying so hard to emulate W10 you can hardly call it linux anymore.

    Do you know how they got OpenRC to work? The easy Ubuntu way.
    They use their own repository and ubuntu but really the base of the system is Devuan, this is where the OpenRC comes from.
    There are no ttys, everything starts on console and plymouth wayland takes over. If something goes wrong you can’t escape from it. They have plasma and it is a slug over sluggish wayland. With ps2 mouse I had no mouse, but usb worked. Just opening a terminal (finally) showed about 1GB ram use with a miserable excuse of a terminal that is probably an ubuntu item.
    Every service conceivable is enabled and running … hence the slug. It is as slow as molasses in cold temperature. This is like an offense to devuan and OpenRC, they are trying to emulate systemd pathology into another system. If you get a devuan installation with Plasma I am willing to bet it is about 10 times faster on an old 2core machine.

    I don’t think such garbage belongs on the list. Maybe it will evolve, but making crap that will run “acceptably” like Win10 in 8+ core systems with 16GB is defeating the purpose. I think the real thing, Win10, probably works more efficiently than this.

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  28. Already Calamares scares me away like horses in a lightning, so I often deliberately spell it ‘calamity’. It cries ‘windows (or macos) simulation’.
    The rest reminds me of what the official debian live installer does (lock into wayland at boot).

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  29. I have mentioned calamity-ares a few times before. Probably in the DW article about their criticism of the obarun-install and their poor attempt of an Obarun-review. Obarun’s installer which does an accurate up to the minute net-install is about the best I have seen. When you consider that its base arch and that base can independently change from one minute to the next, to have such a high rate of success it is a miracle.

    What does Calamares do, as far as I know:

    copy -ax / /mnt (or a modification of this for distros that have the x disabled – which avoids live directories and fs and just copies static parts of the system).

    Then : set fstab, hostname, set locale, time-zone, root pw, user pw, maybe add user to sudo/wheel groups, in some cases I think autologin/autostart DE. So after downloading this huge image, if it is 2-3 weeks old, you nearly have to download just as much once you boot it to upgrade it. So it is a fixed installation (very safe that it will work 2 centuries from now on an antique i9). But you wouldn’t call it a current system.

    Then its silly guis give the pseudo impression of “modern”. They probably just borrowed the code from gparted to portray the disk partitioning graphically, which is about the only complex part of their gui, the rest is all fluff. But people appreciate fluff and look down on substance. I urge anyone to look closely at the code of the obarun-installer. Not the tui, and their graphic design qualities, but the mechanism. You can run arch, manjaro, hyperbola, artix, and build the obarun-install from source, and do a 100% accurate installation of obarun from that system.

    How many installers have you seen when while running the installer you can edit lists of software, remove something you don’t like and use and add your own, and when you boot it first time it is all there, updated, and waiting to do work.

    Eric might consider adding calamares as an option instead of adding a small routine to the current installer (copy live system) as he had before, because 90% of the negative comments and criticisms on distrowatch and other boards is on the installer.

    It is like catching a wild tuna in deep ocean, bringing it ashore and cooking it the best way right off the boat, and have people tell you this is not good, I will go to McDonalds and eat McFish sandwitch because they use Heinz tartar sauce.

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  30. Venom Linux is yet another distro that I have stumbled upon. It’s a source-based distro built on Linux From Scratch and featuring Xfce as default Desktop environment, and it’s developed by a Malaysian guy. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get it working on my laptop and in fact the developer agrees that the live iso is still buggy. Hopefully I will be able to post a short review when the issues are fixed.

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  31. I too feel really sorry that I wasted the time I wasted with Venom. Some projects should be contained and not be public encouraging people to fiddle with them before they reach any level of stability. I understand the need for testing and development, but it should be stated as such.

    With Kiss I feel partially responsible, I mis-interpreted the contact by the Kiss developer as wanting to list it as a new linux distribution and publicized its existence before it was ready to become public. Luckily many people found about it and despite of problems were excited by the creation of Kiss. Kiss caught on with people like fire on gasoline. The developer has been trying to catch up to the popularity ever since.

    Venom made no such warning that trying it was like participating on an incomplete alpha project.

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  32. Source distributions naturally attract developers more than end users.

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  33. New in the waiting list of distrowatch: Mocaccino Micro (musl, s6, some new static package manager). It is alphaware and only suited for dockers.

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  34. One seems to be gentoo based the other is LFS based. I don’t have much respect for distros wasting time money and effort to produce such a site, full of scripts and fluff. I like and respect Spark-Linux website. Lean, useful, direct, with all the needed information. Mocacchino’s site stinks, and their “forum” seems to be more aggressive data mining than discord.

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  35. The gentoo-based one uses systemdisaster (inherited from some junk called Sabayon), so I only mentioned the LFSish one, Mocaccino Micro.

    I have only accessed the site with w3m browser, so I was not affected by javascript and did not even notice its presence.

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  36. AVLinux returns from systemd to SysV as pid1.

    However, the way they do that is not celebratable: Like MX, systemd is left around passively. Further, Pulseaudio is encouraged.

    Even if not Nitrux-like malware (Openbox and Xfce default desktop, no Waylandish disaster), it is more a sidekick of MX than something of interest..

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  37. Hail to yee all!

    Hi Fungalnet! Long time no see, since our last conversations 10 or 11 months ago on the Obarun forum. Hope you’re well and all the staff of sysdfree as well.

    Whoever you are, Klaus, thank you so much for your comment about PsychOS!!! I had never heard of it and, although your message was short, it gave me the will to know more.

    So far, I have always been a bit cautious and suspicious (and never quite interested) by the Devuan project. One of my main reasons for that is that I think Debian is basically broken (if not broken from the start).

    (Sorry Anticapitalista! 😛 By the way, I’m not running Antix but I’m glad to know it’s available out there, alive and living in Paris, sorry, that’s Jacques Brel, alive and living in Greece? I’ve never installed it but its live-session saved my day several times to rescue corrupt systems, including sessions without land-connection. Keep up the (darn) good work!!!)

    (And, again by the way, I ran Debian-based MX Linux several years on my main station. For the reasons we all know: stable, reliable, huge repos. That’s a pragmatic choice. And there’s also theory, idealism and things we think are worthy to fight for, things we think are more desirable. As for me, I wish Linux was not what it has become. Don’t we all? I wish BSD had not been kept busy fighting in court in the years Linux grew well-known for its hardware & driver support…)

    Back in the years of the pervasion of systemd, and also because I was looking for a capable (Gtk) file-manager, I came across this page of “IgnorantGuru”, the designer of SpaceFM, who defines himself as a ‘cypher-punk’, hehe:

    https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/julian-assange-debian-is-owned-by-the-nsa/

    (The link, just to illustrate my point about Debian being “broken”.)

    When you think about it, it took only a couple of years (OK, I’m exagerating here) to Arch to build a far more performant system of package-management + repos than Debian has, which was there 15 years earlier! (Unfortunally, Arch has got systemdead, systemdied, systemdeed, whatever…) But any good will endeavour must be acknowledged and saluted. And Devuan certainly is one of them. (Think about all the people who want to have access to Debian’s repos, one of the hugest of the *nix world! Arch’s repos are approximateley as large (if not larger) only if we include AUR in the count, and AUR have some downsides, don’t they?)

    Anyway, back to my today concern: I went to the site of this “retrophile” OS and the STYLE (in graphics, in writing and in thinking) of its author caught my curiosity and interest. For instance, I am very sensitive to the fact he/she (?) does NOT consider making a 64bit version. TheOuterLinux (that’s the avatar-name of the author) keeps focus on his/her purpose: bringing a systemd-free Debian in 32bit to revive old hardware. And that’s exactly what PsychOS does! Plus a “Wild Bunch” [(c) Sam Peckinpah] of goodies, whether you are nostalgic of pre-2000 stuff OR NOT!

    I am quite amazed by the maturity of this approach and of its concrete implementation. The distro comes with THOUSANDS of micro-small apps (CLI utilities, games, etc). It could take a lifetime just to have a glimpse of them. Although, the distro is NOT bloated: it is frugal and light on resources. It’s just complete, maybe exhaustive.

    BEWARE! The iso is not designed to boot on a USB pendrive, but for a DVD to boot via the optical drive. If, like me, you want to boot (to live-try it and/or install it) from USB, you’ll want to follow the short set of instructions on this page:

    https://psychoslinux.gitlab.io/downloads.html#usb

    When I installed PsychOS two nights ago, it got quite late, so my memory may not serve me well. But as far as I remember, DO NOT panic if you are not asked your username and paswword before the installation is finished: you’ll be asked to create a user (and pw) after the (Refracta-)installation is finished (and before reboot). Besides, unlike more and more distros out there, you’ll also be asked to set a root password, different (or not, that’s your choice) of your user pw.

    The installation of PsychOS is CLIish, but it’s nothing scary. It’s a little smoother than, say, Void’s or Obarun’s. If you are not familiar with CLI partitioning, my advice is you partition (if needed) with Gparted (which is provided on the iso) during the live-session BEFORE launching the installation process. Worked well for me. Hope this can help anyone.

    Have fun!

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  38. Hail to yee all!

    About Nitrux: I installed it on real hardware, approximately six weeks ago. (I was interested to try an Ubuntu-compatible without systemd and with Plasma and its own home-developped environment.) BUT it took me less than ten hours to break it completely, just updating and installing with APT, i.e. the “normal” way on any Debian or Ubuntu derivative. Problems of conflicting versions of packages? Problems of incompatible repo-sourcelists? I dunno and don’t want to know.
    I think this distro may have some potential in future days, but it’s not usuable as is now. Besides, it furiously lacks documentation and support…

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  39. Hi Oneiro, thank you for all the food for thought.

    I can’t remember when PsychOS was mentioned before or whether I had taken a good look at it. It seems as it is split into two systems, one based on Devuan one based on Puppy. It is not much of a puzzle to me why the “lighter” edition is based on Puppy. If you notice on reddit or LinuxQuestions whenever anyone asks for a really light solution to reviving really old hardware, AntiX is almost an autoresponse, even by people not using AntiX. Back when Devuan 1.0 was released, I tried to use it on some hopeless old hw, and it was borderline bearably slow. All attempts to trim it down were fruitless. When I tried antiX it came alive.

    That was some juicy article by ignorantguru and the agent’s #10 comment was a lot of lauphs. How can people like that sleep with themselves at night and not get a divorce I don’t know. All I have to say is that if Debian stinks, Devuan is a shit-hole. Just think of what this prevalent hyped and spinned polarization of Debian-Devuan does, like if nothing else exists. It is the same tendency to defend systemd by dismissing all alternatives and focusing on sysvinit. But the spacefm guy hasn’t added a single comment or article in more than 5.5y and the article you mention is 6+ years old. Maybe he gave up fighting off all the agents insulting him and just returned to his spacefm work.

    An other enemy of the state said several times in his video interviews that some things were branded conspiracy theories because there was no evidence to prove what people were afraid of. Then after his revelation and the lack of denial by the chief offender, it shifted from being a conspiracy theory to a political crisis. It is not an issue of whether they can and do break into things, it is just on how are they doing it lately. And the effort is always to do it so we can not possibly ever find out how they do what they do. So they can always be calling a conspiracy theorist anyone suspecting them.

    There are two issues here that have political content. 1 Why are they doing it. 2 Why doesn’t the vast majority of people care about what they do when they are caught red-handed? They are still there, and I am sure they are up to no good, Snowden is in hiding and will probably remain, and the public support for his case is minimal. In other words, it is not that rulers are psychopaths and evil, but society is sick and allows such psychopaths to float. Trimming the ends of the cancer cells while the tumor remains is not therapy.

    You provide me with the server space and a named site for your new light linux based on Devuan with your choice of wm, and I will download, configure, rebrand, and produce an iso with Refracta in less than an hour. It might take me 3hr to upload but that is a different story. If there is anything worthwhile around Devuan is Refracta. Too bad it is incompatible with antiX, but antiX has its own iso maker. Obarun does too. I recently tried it and I have my own live Obarun on a stick now, instead of using the JWM iso to go repair PCs.

    Nitrux, yes, what a waste of time that was, trying it.

    Apart from Gentoo/K1ss/Crux/Kwort and other source based build your own linux distros, if you are looking for some “clean” interesting fun developed by serious people, give Alpine or Adelie a closer look. AntiX and Obarun will always be running behind debian and arch respectively trying to patch holes they create. It is just that arch is faster getting to dig the holes or adopting them than debian is. But Obarun needs a base to demonstrate 66 and thus s6. It has done that well and nearly alone for 6 years. Now others are hesitantly jumping into the fun. Void, adelie, artix, and only void has 66 and it is the only one really functional and able to be used for production. Artix has insulted s6, reduced it to a runit like system, just so they can say they have a 3rd init available. I’d rather use runit than s6 on artix.

    Welcome to 2021, Gtk4 is here, and Qt6 is here, and all kinds of gnome funkied up intralinked gadgets are here to give us more headaches.

    The BSD world is not an alternative though. One the one side we have the nostalgic hippies of OpenBSD, and on the other hand we have the hipster wannabe hippies of FreeBSD. The later, in their forum, are really happy of how the latest Gnome desktop works. They are also very proud of zfs development utilizing “facebook’s zstd compression”.

    If zfs is boobie-trapped, the kernel on top of it is also, what system do you expect to build that you can trust? Encryption at such conditions is a joke. Like someone said long ago, is like drawing lines in a paper and pretend they are walls when you are looking at the contents from the 3rd dimension.

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  40. Hail to thee all!

    Hi, “sysdfree-editor”,

    Not completely sure if you are the same person who once went by the name of Fungalnet and with whom I discussed various (and sometimes “off-topic”) matters on the Obarun forum at the beginning of this soon passed year?

    All the same, thank you for taking time and care to answer back.

    First, please keep in mind this: Of all the people who frequent and comment here, I may be the less taught of us all on computer and software matters: I am basically an END-USER. For example, editing a rather simple config dot-file is already a pain in the ass for me.

    Nonetheless, I do edit config-files once in a while. (Lately GRUB config-files gave me hard times.) And I am not that much afraid by CLI commands: I like the terminal and its power. When I am tired of the heavyweight slowliness of LibreOffice Writer (when using old hardware), I will prefer using the µicro text editor (in Plasma Konsole or in LXQt qTerminal) rather than a windowed text-editor like KWrite or FeatherPad. The Bépo French keyboard layout allows me to respect and honor the rules of French typography directly from the keyboard and without any need for advanced text-processing treatments: diacritics, typesetter’s apostrophes, non-breaking spaces, etc. That’s one of the many powers of Unix. I then go back to LO Writer when needing to word-process before printing.

    On IgnorantGuru: Yes, his blog seems “dormant”, probably due to “real life” occupations, probably developping SpaceFM, although I am not aware of recent version updates of this nice file-manager. But all the Library issues, changes from Gtk N to Gtk N+1 (you mentionned Gtk4 and Qt6 coming), changes of binary PATHS and so on, may keep one man busy on maintaining a software afloat? Once again, my two-cents of basic end-user speculations… Anyway… I miss IgnorantGuru’s papers and his replies to comments. So much knowledge, common sense, fighting spirit and… humor! In 2012-2014, his blog saved my mind from insanity when, as a then Mangaro-user, systemd was spoiling my workflow and my high consideration for the so-called FOSS world.

    Thank you for pointing the #10 comment, that is indeed quite a good laugh!

    Thanks for your advice about Alpine and Adélie. I quite remember Fungalnet advocated them last winter, even saying something like: “it’s the future, mark my words!” 😉 Marking his words, I gave Adélie a try at the beginning of this year, quite unsuccessfully. On the one hand, I may lack competence for these kinds of distros. On the other end, despite all my efforts, it just could not boot on my computer!

    I lately considered Vector Linux. But I spent some hours reading on their forum and they seem to have some serious manpower issues. The distro is stagnant. Too bad: it seems they wrote a piece of history as a user-friendly Slackware.

    See, I also considered Kwort lately. But I am that kind of user who needs a live-iso with a graphical environment to check everything’s OK before installing. (I have to mention that all my four computers are rather “old” laptops and I do not have a landline internet connection.)

    I may give antiX some more serious try soon. (But not very soon.) I also observed in the past that it runs like hell on old hardware! Hence the choice of the name “antiX” which sounds like “antics”?

    As for now, my 32-bit netbook runs Void (with LXQt), dual-booting with PsychOS since last Monday. I also installed PCLinuxOS on another 64-bit laptop the day before.

    PCLinuxOS is an interesting beast. The laptop I’m talking about is a Dell Studio 1737 (my birth-year, huhu!) with a Broadcam Wi-Fi device wich requires some special care to be driven. Well, PCLinuxOS managed it out of the box, first live and, then, installed as well. Their package-management policy (APT but for… rpm packages!) is a curiosity but works quite well. (But I need to spend some time on this system before writing any more thorough feedback.)

    I gave Obarun a try on a Dell Latitude D630 one month ago, with the latest JWM iso, but it was a complete failure. I may try again in a few months, on more recent hardware. Still, I am a bit dubious on the software selection of the iso. I won’t hesitate to Obarun again if there would be an LXQt edition. (Not asking, mmh, just mentioning.)

    Sorry if there are off-topic remarks in this long message.

    Peace out, buddies!

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  41. Now, about the *BSD world:

    I am not advocating *BSDs, whom I know not much about, I mean in practice. I’ve been remotely following the (rather slow) progress of *BSDs on desktop and laptop since 2008, the very same year I completely migrated to Linux (and I was already, at the time, also considering Haiku, since my computer needs are only single-user personal-computing). And I never quite managed to run any of the (Free)BSDs I tried satisfactoryly. (The problem of Wi-Fi drivers for BSD-laptoping is quite well-known.) I tried TrueOS, GhostBSD, FuryBSD, and NomadBSD. In 2017, I successfully installed TrueBSD on a Dell laptop but it was, how shall I put it, so ugly! I mean very ugly. I erased it from my computer in two days. Exactly one year ago (end of December 2019), I successfully installed NomadBSD (to my knowledge the only *BSD live-iso with a GUI supporting 32-bit) on my oldest laptop. I played with it approximately a week, before breaking it dead after a FreeBSD point release upgrade that turned bad. But before this upgrade, it behaved quite good, with out of the box Wi-Fi management.

    But I discovered that, while legendary for the quality of its documentation, FreeBSD is singularly poor, vague and unreliable about a crucial point of the updating/upgrading process: the mirrors. I remember spending something like two days of hard research before being able to do this upgrade (that I was aware was risky) and which failed miserably. More exactly, it did not fail, it precisely occured and broke the system dead. Not NomadBSD’s bad, as far as I understand, but FreeBSD’s bad –and my own impetuosity’s bad too, as a beginner. But the experience was, let’s say, educational… 😉

    Anyway, just to say I am not advocating *BSDs but I have to mention that I think you are not being fair with them in your last post. Let me say why.

    Let’s suppose the other way round. Let’s suppose we are a systemd-free community running BSD-based OSes. Let’s now suppose the honorable administrator of this blog/site, by curiosity, goes and reads on Linux forums and Linux news threads to see what goes around. What will this BSD-user see?

    Lots of Linux hipsters masturbating and jerking off on Gnome’s beauty.

    Just because some stupid fucks in the *BSD galaxy are as stupid as some fucks in the Linux galaxy is not a strong enough argument to condemn *BSDs as a whole. Remember the Law “80 percent of everything is crap.” (Although I rekon it should say: “99 percent of everything is crap”…)

    Now, to be fair with you, your argument about the adoption of Facebook’s compression-system is much stronger, and I have nothing to oppose it.

    But even there, you have the choice NOT to use ZFS, haven’t you?

    I DO agree with you, though, that it casts some shadow on FreeBSD’s seriousness (already today) and reliability in the future.

    But what about OpenBSD, except that you qualify them as “nostalgic hippies”? Have you got some serious factual input against OpenBSD?

    My two cents. Hippyly salutation: “Peace out!” 😉

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  42. Unfortunately you should be completely sure of who I am. My last year’s trick of getting fed up and asking a couple of other people to continue this and just ask for help resulted in zero articles for a long while. I think it was about the time I got fed up and disappointed with Void. Imagine that a few months earlier I was recommending to Eric to abandon Arch as a base and move to Void. I am glad he didn’t.

    Dell 630 (I saw specs for) C2Duo 4GB is plenty to run Obarun on. Especially JWM would fly on such a machine, but even a plasma installation shouldn’t be a problem unless you use applications that take up all the ram, like video editing, or funky modern browsers with 49 tabs running scripts.

    I hadn’t used spacefm for a long while, so after reading some of his old articles I decided to install it! Kawabanga!!!! I am trying to edit the preferences and nothing is changing. Started from terminal so I look and it is full of errors. No connection to dbus 🙂 Ohh… my my! Even pcmanfm doesn’t do that. I haven’t been using filemanagers that much anyway, and when I do is either hunting for some old text, pic, video, nothing serious. I don’t trust them with moving/copying/deleting files, I’d rather use the terminal. And I sure wouldn’t use them to make a desktop out of a WM. JWM, openbox, … all run so much cleaner without doing that, using an FM as a desktop where you can have icons. I have a picture bg and a conky module (similar to the one posted in the Obarun forum).
    I didn’t find a configuration file to manually edit the options/preferences so dbus doesn’t kill them. Some preferences pertaining to gaining root access did edit a file in /etc/spacefm/{username}-as-root

    My latest experiment with the current kwort image run on qemu but wouldn’t run on VBox. But a while ago I had played with it enough that I even saved an image of that installation, so it must have been worthwhile.

    Void musl, in my opinion and experience, runs lighter and faster than glibc, enough that in an old machine you can tell the difference. I’ll have to go back to the forum to see what kind of problem you had installing Obarun, I somehow remember something about trying it on 2 laptops? You didn’t stick around long enough. Lately there haven’t been any complains about installations. For a while some months ago the #1 arch mirror on the list had not synched for months and was creating many errors. Not much Obarun can do about it. Finally arch took a couple of cleanups and dumped the bad mirrors. It is hard to install Obarun in July when the arch mirror contains pkgs frozen since March. The option of ranking mirrors is an improvement, but if you happen to be near a mirror that responds but doesn’t mirror packages for months, you are ….!

    If Obarun had a little more money for a reliable and redundant server to build and mirror pkgs, and a few packaging hands, it could move to its own independent system and not be affected by running behind Arch. No zstd, no elogind/systemd, no wayland, no … no… and no library surprises that break everything.

    Waterfox is next to impossible to build due to size and complexity, so it is mostly going around as a binary. Because the builders choose to build it on old c, cc, libraries, most commonly found on debian/fedora, it will not run right on arch. This is nearly a year now. There is a workaround that defeats its sandboxing abilities just so sound would work. But palemoon works fine. It is all give and take, you win something here, you lose something else over there, you can’t have it all.

    Like

  43. No, if I was to play with BSDs OpenBSD would be it. There are plenty of symptoms on FreeBSD to predict they are going to closely follow down the same rabbit hole that linux is falling.
    The key to all this madness to me is the influence of Large Corporations producing code to affect and control other peoples’ code. They are intentionally attacking specific bottlenecks in development. Hubs within the system that applications rely on. They produce a useful tool to compete and replace a traditional undeveloped tool, and then in time more and more rely on their tool. Then they attack.

    In my eyes, there can never be anything good produced and handed out for free by large corporations. It appears as free but you pay dearly with independence, both as a user and as a developer.

    So zfs, zstd, speck, systemd, gnome, pulseaudio, dbus, qt, virtualbox, … chrome, mozilla, … are all out for themselves (or for those funding them).

    Like

  44. Quote: “Unfortunately you should be completely sure of who I am. My last year’s trick of getting fed up and asking a couple of other people to continue this and just ask for help resulted in zero articles for a long while. I think it was about the time I got fed up and disappointed with Void. Imagine that a few months earlier I was recommending to Eric to abandon Arch as a base and move to Void. I am glad he didn’t.”

    On the identity of “sysdfree-editor”: I had guessed it was you, Funky, but had no real proof to ground my intuition. Except that the purism and radicalism of your articles is noone’s but yours. 😉

    On the period you point: I remember very well, it was two or three weeks after I introduced myself on the Obarun forum. We (you and I) then talked much about Void –off-topic on the Obarun forum, that is to say that Obarun’s forum had a bit become our private chatroom to talk about… another distro, haha! How nice of them to have tolerated this. 🙂

    The supreme irony is that you got irate against Void the very same day (maybe the same hour, minute and second?) when I eventually succeeded installing Void on my Sambook. (Sorry: let me precise that “Sambook” is the nickname I gave to my dear Samsung N140 netbook.) It’s still the same Void installation that runs on it now. But instead of dual-booting with Haiku, it nows stands alongside… PsychOS.

    Another big irony is that at that time, remember, I was considering (and had proposed) you to write a kind of review of Void FROM AN END-USER PERSPECTIVE (mine!) to contribute a bit to systemd-free and relief you. But then… you would go berserk against Void and not want to hear about it anymore, haha!

    Installing Obarun on my Sambook was not an option: it’s got a 32-bit CPU (fortunately, pae-kernel capable, at least).

    At this period, (January to March) I was running Obarun on my (Lenovo) ThinkPad X230. Obarun was indeed flying on it! –especially with the 4.19 kernel hosted by the Obarun repos, if my memory serves me well, after you posted a topic on that matter in the Obaforum.

    But I got fed up with Obarun (the system itself, not the very nice community) because I was spending more time administrating it than actually using it. (Remember: I’m an END-USER.) Well, to be quite fair, it’s not just Obarun I was having trouble administrating: I was also newcoming to Plasma.

    — By the way, I am sorry I disappeared from the forum so suddenly. I considered posting a goodbye message, but what good would have it done to say: “bye guys, thank you for all but I’m done with this for such and such reasons.” I suspect Éric and Jean-Michel would have tried to convince me to stay in the free world and I did not want to take more of their time. They already do spare enough time for free, don’t they? Plus I don’t think it’s a definite farewell. As I said earlier, one month ago, I tried to install Obarun (on the Dell D630 you checked) but then failed to install –for a reason that I do not precisely remember…

    Another irony is that I remember thinking then (when live-sessioning Obarun one month ago) that SpaceFM was a weird choice as the default FM of the iso. I now remember that I gave Obarun a try for two or three rational reasons: 1. See if I would feel like installing it again (but on the Dell D630, this time.) 2. In order to rescue a system with a chroot, 3. or at least, rescue the data that was on this computer, before erasing the previous system –I don’t even remember which one! (There was a fourth reason, that is not rational but sentimental…) And the thing is that SpaceFM let me NO access to my hard-drive from the live-session! At the time, I thought it was for permission issues I was unable to resolve. But maybe it was some dbus stuff? Anyway, it was very irritating and I rescued my data with another live-iso. (But I don’t remember which either. Maybe MX.)

    Yep, not so easy to use SpaceFM today and it may have become buggy, since it’s almost an abandonware.

    As for PCManFM, I like it. The Qt version, especially, which is far better and snappier than the Gtk one and almost as capable as Dolphin since version 0.16 (and maybe even before.)

    Talking of which… LXQt has now become rather good. I remember trying it several times, years ago, and finding it very buggy, ugly and limited. But now, it’s almost a complete DE — it’s not yet as much customizable as, say, Xfce, BUT… 1. it may become soon as customizable as Xfce, 2. it’s far more lightweight and capable (and devoid of Gtk nonsense), and 3. the main “home apps” (qterminal, pcmanfm, featherpad) are much more customizable than Xfce’s. Qterminal is nearly as good as Konsole, PCManFM nearly as good as Dolphin and FeatherPad nearly as good as KWrite (I don’t use Kate). I am quite sensible to this because the core of a GUI is 1. its file-manager, whether you use it or not, 2. its terminal-emulator, 3. its text editor. (I’m here speaking about visible APPLICATIONS. As an END-USER, I don’t care the subtle net of daemons, autostarted programs, network-manager, etc) And I CLAIM that there is no reason that in 2020, as an end-user, I should get interested by that kind of nerdy stuff.

    Nonetheless, I do quite agree too that for copying files, deleting, etc, especially from one drive to another, it’s quicker and more reliable to CLI cp, rm, mv. I observed that curious phenomenoin in ALL the DEs I used, whether lightweight or bloated! If Caja was not (still today) very often crashing during rather basic operations, I would perhaps still be using MATE as my DE. Thank you, Caja: that’s because you failed me so often that I left MATE to go on Plasma and LXQt and I’m glad I did. 🙂

    Nowadays, despite its completeness, Plasma is not more resource-demanding than MATE or even Xfce —unless you use some Window Managing like OpenBox or such, to be able to pretend that Xfce flies.

    So the winds have changed a bit, it seems.

    If what you say is true, about FreeBSD people rejoicing because they have good hope to implement Gnome crap successfully, there IS indeed something wrong in their minds. Once upon a time, the BSDs were more encouraging Qt —though it was not as good as it is now. And now Gtk has gone mad, they want it?

    All this stinks sabotage. All this FOSS thing stinks sabotage. It feels like any mistake that can be done, so that the Microsoft/Apple/Google sharing of the cake of the OS-Realm can keep on forever, every mistake, says I, that can be done… has been done.

    So… sabotage by being mistaken or… sabotage as a purpose and agenda?

    Like

  45. Quote: “No, if I was to play with BSDs OpenBSD would be it. There are plenty of symptoms on FreeBSD to predict they are going to closely follow down the same rabbit hole that linux is falling.”

    Now, I do quite agree. And it’s a shame there is no equivalent of, say, Knoppix or NomadBSD for OpenBSD. AS IF you have to be computer-savvy to deserve a securely set computer.

    In other words, the more crappy is a system, the more installed (or easily installed) it gets. (Examples: Windows, macOS, iOS, Android). The less crappy (for instance OpenBSD), the less talked about in the media, the less installed and the less easily installed — or at least accessible to end-users.

    I would be ready to learn OpenBSD’s interpretation of the Unix way, provided at least that I can first check it will work on my hardware. And for that, as an end-user, I’d rather have an iso and be able to live-session with a GUI and DE, even sort of minimal.

    Now this is one of the reasons I AM quite irate towards this period and maybe as quite irate against the so-called FOSS world as I am against the Corporate. In a way, the “FOSS” world is worse, because of its hypocrisy. From a pragmatic perspective (let alone FSF-spirit, which is highly respectable by the way), I would seriously consider BUYING a system if I was sure it works good and that it lets me USE my computer — which is not the case of Windows or macOS: THEY use your computer more than YOU do.

    Now, in the 2000-2010 years, Linux brought a very serious hope there would be a game-changer. THIS promise has been betrayed.

    As for the serious *BSDs (hence, not FreeBSD), they produce and result good OSes (if I can believe what I read here and there) but their word is not spread because they target people that are already computer scientists and specialists. They do not care end-users.

    So… I am allowed to waste my money (and time) buying computers… but I am not allowed to use them with robust OSes and clean software? Isn’t there a serious problem out there?

    My point is that the (mainstream) FOSS world is an accomplice of this felony. Except they play the part of the “good guys” against the “bad guys” (Microsoft, Apple). But they are a part in the global charade of wasting people’s time.

    And TIME is the only thing we have!

    Like

  46. Hi Klaus!

    True!

    I spent some time on FuguIta’s site (Japanese designer) two weeks ago. But as far as I understood the project, its vocation is not to install the OpenBSD system on bare metal (although it might be possible, I dunno) but to provide a USB rescue system, with possibly very interesting persistance features.

    There are also options to get some GUI working, but you have to build from the ground up, knowing quite well what you are doing. Once again a project by a computer-scientist targetting other computer-scientists. Not precisely for end-users like me.

    But I’ll follow the evolution of FuguIta with interest. It might open a breach in OpenBSD elitism…

    Thanks for the tip anyway. 🙂 And Happy Christmas!

    PS @Klaus By the way, I owe you the lead to PsychOS, of which I am now a happy user for three days. 😀 Definitely worth a try. Very special OS. And TheOuterLinux, the person behind it, is very articulate and nice.

    Like

  47. Quote: “If Obarun had a little more money for a reliable and redundant server to build and mirror pkgs, and a few packaging hands, it could move to its own independent system and not be affected by running behind Arch. No zstd, no elogind/systemd, no wayland, no … no… and no library surprises that break everything.”

    Yep, that would be awesome, Obarun becoming an independant distro in its own right / in its own write. 😉

    But I have to testimony that it’s already a superb thing. If even the claimed end-user without great knowledge that I am could run Obarun during two months, anyone more learned system-wise (which means anyone who lands on this site) can and should give it a try.

    Like

  48. Because…

    (Now writing a mail to another Linuxist about Arch, I sort of nailed what is the “essence” of Arch. It goes like this…)

    I’m sure you would love playing with pacman and yay and probably love how Arch works, package-management-wise. When I read the first interview of Judd Vinet on the internet, I knew it would become something huge, although I was then a little Ubuntero. It has become huge, maybe the most powerful and versatile distro of the galaxy.
    Unfortunately, it runs systemd. It was even one of the first distros (after Red Hat/Fedora) to default systemd and drop any other init. What a shame! Because what was the force (and vector of inventiveness) of Arch is also its worse sin, strangely resembling our Western world Zeitgeist: the will and hunger for what’s brand new (“cutting edge”, as everyone puts it now) and the reject of what’s old. Arch is a rolling-release without any “stable” branch. It does not look back. It runs and runs… without any perspective. Like most of the today mainstream FOSS world. It’s at the same time the best and the worst of Linux.

    Like

  49. I was browsing linux systems on sourceforge today and discovered this new site https://sourceforge.net/projects/oldlinuxdistributionarchive/ that has uploaded isos that have been discontinued. It might be a bit dangerous to boot systems with unknown hosts and checksums, they may be altered, but on a jailed VM it can’t be too bad.

    There is on called archserver (the one on top was the most recent). It is arch with sysvinit based, kernel 2.6-lts, and it has AIF which has long been discontinued as well, but recently has been rewritten and revived and available on AUR. But just wondering around such a system is an interesting tour in Arch history.

    Did you know that Void was one of the earliest testbeds for systemd. They had systemd as default before most others did. So much for kiss principles.

    With s6 and 66 nothing gets more zeitgeisty than Obarun 🙂

    Like

  50. I was one of the influences to take the old “designed not for begginers in mind” off the site as it scared people away unnecessarily. And since I volunteer my time to help beginners as much as I know how, let them have it. It sure beats installing arch as a beginner. Imagine going from windows to a black screen saying
    archlinux login:

    Like

  51. Thanks, Anonymous,
    Just had a look. It’s a Turkish LFS-based distro (aiming to national digital sovereignty) and the version is codenamed “Attila” (Atilla).
    Kind of like the idea. 🙂 The Turkish had already developped Pardus, back in the days, with Pisi.
    Thanks again!

    Like

  52. @Fungalnet

    Have some news that may please you, as an advocate of Alpine. Just saw that a community of hackers is developping an independant OS to replace Android on Android phones and tabs. It’s called postmarketOS and they based it on Alpine.

    https://postmarketos.org/

    (Sorry if you already knew.)

    Like

  53. @Fungalnet,

    Re-posting, because my previous attempt doesn’t get published — because of ONE link?

    Some news that may please you as an advocate of Alpine. Just saw that a community of hackers is working on an OS capable of replacing Android on devices such as smartphones and tabs. It’s called postmarketOS and is based on Alpine.

    postmarketos [dot] org

    Cheerios

    Like

  54. Re: EasyOS

    Firstly, which one should you go for, the Buster- or Dunfell-series?

    On the PC, if you want maturity and the huge Debian package repository, then probably the Buster-series is the best choice. The Dunfell-series has a small package repository, and there may (or may not be) some maturity issues with the packages.
    But if you want very small, lean, mean and fast, without any dependence on systemd, pulseaudio, avahi, pam or polkit, and just plain more fun, choose the Dunfell-series.

    Besides, in the Dunfell-series, you can run a Buster-series in a container, which is really easy to do.


    Looks like the user gets to choose.

    Like

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