Thanks to the great work by Eric Koegel and Antoine Jacoutot we were not wrong again!
Parrots never think of what it is they say, they hear things (generally things are heard through highly paid and supported media that serve corporate and state interests) and reproduce the sound of them. Not that they are dumb, but they can’t process rational language based communication.
QUESTION: Why are you dumping consolekit2 and use elogind, that you know is just a significant piece of systemd, which further makes upstream reliance to systemd more acceptable and wide spread?
EXCUSE: Consolekit is deprecated, it is unmaintained, it will never work with Wayland, and we must support wayland because that is the future.
QUESTION: Could consolekit2 be able to work with wayland?
EXCUSE: No, it never will!
QUESTION: Elogind, being a piece of the most convoluted piece of opensource software ever encountered is very big. Shouldn’t this be a performance concern?
EXCUSE: No, because consolekit was also huge!
ANSWER: Consolekit2 1.2.2 was released Dec.20 2020 and among its changes is a memory leak fix, NetBSD/OpenBSD fixes/compliance and more. If you notice in the list of issues and discussion there has been a workaround to get ck2 to work with wayland in Gentoo since 2018.
Consolekit2 is between a 1/5 to 1/6 of the size of elogind!
I am not speaking of tiny little parakeets that are 12cm long but real big ones, “developers”, who direct and control the fate and direction of popular distributions. They bite, the scream real loud, they can fly as high as hawks and eagles, and have their beaks high up in the sky and refuse to talk to us common mortals. While black hawks on the other hand don’t pretend like they are speaking or communicating their own minds, basically because media will not reproduce their voices as loud as the parrots. So, are Hawks mute? No, they just don’t pretend they know something because corporate officials handed them out notes and memos or propaganda.
github.com ConsoleKit2 release 1.22
ajacoutot released this Dec 20, 2020
Stable release of ConsoleKit2
Changes since 1.2.1
Bug Fixes:
- Change the inhibitor lock handling to use the named_pipe_path as a reference to prevent ending with empty “who” inhibitors
- Inhibit: only disconnect the signal handler after the lock is removed to prevent ghost inhibitors
Misc Changes:
- merge all changes from OpenBSD ports
- merge all changes from NetBSD pkgsrc
Assets 2 Source code (zip) Source code (tar.gz)
I built consolekit2 in Obarun, from AUR and although Arch/AUR reports it as outdated, it builds 1.2.2 and I replaced Obarun’s pkg to make sure it works. Although I don’t use either ck2 or dbus, or a DM for that matter, I used all three to test that it works and started lxde, lxqt, plasma, and various software within those to make sure it does work. Its log didn’t produce any errors or warnings sent by anything I tried running. I am willing to bet you that for months if I go around reddit or LinuxQuestions asking the parrots of void, slackware, adelie, devuan, why are they choosing elogind rather than consolekit2 they will all be screaming ck2 is deprecated, for months, if not years.
Some birds choose to fly free, and some are fed in cages or with their feet tied with wire to a post. Keep on humming along Parrots!
From artix (cache from the old days when I thought they were great)
951K Oct 9 2019 …/pacman/pkg/elogind-241.3-4-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
200K Oct 9 2019 …/pacman/pkg/libelogind-241.3-4-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
From Obarun last 1.2.1 edition:
157K Apr 5 2020 ../pacman/pkg/consolekit2-1.2.1-7-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
From Void back when they were sane and logical
159K Sep 18 2018 ../var/xbps/ConsoleKit2-1.2.1_2.x86_64.xbps
<– before — after –>
116K Jun 26 2020 /var/cache/xbps/elogind-devel-243.4_3.x86_64.xbps
225K Jun 26 2020 /var/cache/xbps/libelogind-243.4_3.x86_64.xbps
692K Jun 26 2020 /var/cache/xbps/elogind-243.4_3.x86_64.xbps
Something that runs as a daemon based on a package that is about 5-6 times larger, providing the same service, should be a performance concern. If not to the devs that decide to replace something with something else, at least to the voiceless user.
systemd-free linux community 
Linux was infinitely much better before IBM and the corporate members of the Linux Fornication ruined it systemdatically.
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When was that?
Without corporate support, the GNU/Linux would have been since its invention just like are today the GNU/Hurd or Minix.
Heck, I remember that long time ago was even agreed that Minix is a better kernel design than Linux (that’s probably also why also Intel chosen it for its mission critical Management Engine from motherboards), but the Linux was lucky enough to attract instead the corporations attention.
If you want to no be a corporate puppet, feel free to use Minix or GNU/Hurd.
They need users too.
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This is a logical fallacy, what would open free software be excluding multinational corporations contributions?
The people who develop software and share it with “free” licensing, and who are capable of contributing, would do so in a different way if there wasn’t corporate involvement. So things like minix and hurd may have been much more advanced and much more manageable as projects than the mega-corporate projects. It would have been what it could, if GNU had set stricter parameters in what and who can play and who is excluded.
It is the same as with the initial topic, the presence of freedesktop.COM created a node of influence. More users fell for the candy, more developers turned to contribute under certain “platforms”. Qt is just as bad in this respect as its counterparts. The more widespread the use of systemd became the more developers used it and its tools and made alternative functionality more cumbersome. All this work that takes up resources to readjust software so they work without systemd’s parasitic presence is a waste of resources, caused by the multinational corporations’ presence.
Linus/x was not immune from diving into the candy, and who can blame the individuals from wanting to survive better. But rules should be set by organizations of people not by individual interests. And when I say organizations of people I mean it specifically, corporations and people are not the same and can not organize together. In my view they contradict each others’ interests because the one is by definition formed to exploit, and the other by definition again will be exploited if the first is to exploit.
Hyperbola is giving up the fight in Linux because as the last libre-kernel is deprecated there is no way in making a libre kernel anymore. If this corporate presence wasn’t so influential and development could have separated there would have been people that could organize and fork the last good libre kernel and develop it further, with a wiser selection of hw to support, and wiser file systems to support, etc. Fashion is shoving in rapid rates Oracle’s and Facebook’s riddles of sw into the kernel. Just watch, before 21 is over, zfs will be a maintstay of the kernel, and zstd will be inherited through zfs. Most distros will leave this spyware enabled, as their policy is to leave the defaults as they come from upstream.
Game over. The only open/free software there will be would be under the total control of 3-4-5 mega corporations. They can pull an UEFI trick and ban any open/free software that do not have a certificate of “security”, which might cost to obtain 10 times the budget of some small software developers. Therefore, things like sinit/ssm, minit, perp, runit, s6, 66, will not be certified by “linux”. You may have to hack the hw to be able to install and run non-certified sw.
But there are other scenarios as well, much much worse than what I just described.
The fact is that Linux is developing into a system that makes every machine a dummy terminal for multinationals and state security agencies. It is the prime directive they jointly are complying by. There can never be data in the hands of individuals beyond the reach of corporate/state scope. It is an orchistrated attack on the the very foundation of open/free software, to take control of your own. You can have control but under strict supervision and visibility.
It may be futile at this point of development to fight in this front, but the struggle makes it worthwhile and no struggle has ever gone to waste. It is the only reason humanity developed, not by complying but resisting totalitarianism and social control.
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Hello guys, please forgive my bad English…
Pffff…
Please guys, stop the fight, it’s really useless…
If you check at LinuxFromScratch, you will see that PAM and elogind have already been integrated on 9.0 version from september 2019.
And this the same for all major Linux distros.
I don’t say if it is good or bad, I just say that’s a fact.
I am actually working on a distro based on Slackware without elogind, PAM, wayland and many other “features” I consider as total crap so, if you want to make a fork, please consider to take a look at why I am proposing.
Unfortunately for you my work is especially intended for a French-speaking audience even if my work includes all translations for all languages supported by the system.
I will try to make a multilingual version soon, but…
Stay confident, I will give you a version without all concerned issues to remain in the KISS way of life.
Stay tuned, we can make a better world for all if we are working on it instead of being puppets…
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Hello Yann, welcome
I changed the missing L in your message.
I don’t know of any participants here who are native English speakers, there may be some, but most of us manage to communicate with this one Unix language 🙂
Your contributions are welcome, as long as they don’t involve part of the disease (systemd, elogind, wayland, pulseaudio, gnome, etc.) they have a home here.
I’ve been working on an article for a while now, on how to do an installation step by step based on Obarun/Arch and how I set up things with a KIS(systemd users) principle, as a response to those that say I criticise and don’t offer anything. No logind of any form (ck or systemd derived), no dbus, no Display manager, just openbox (or your wm of choice – except for this new trojan called sway). It differs a bit from Obarun standard installations or its openbox flavor.
After it is done I can modify it a little bit and achieve the same results with Void, also with s6 and 66.
The idea is that someone can just take the article, comment out the explanations, and use it as an installation script, modify it to their liking, and stop relying on dummy software called installers, especially the most dumb of them all, Calamares.
That is what I call empowerment. Knowledge and wide distribution of it.
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If you have it ready in French send it as a comment and maybe between oneirosopher and myself we can translate it and repost it in English.
Some people, perceive criticism as fighting. That is their problem! I haven’t written a single word in LQ for nearly three weeks now, and today still I get a private message by some michaelk threatening me to be obedient!
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Excuse my ignorance, but isn’t also eudev part of “the disease” ?
As you known well, the eudev is systemd-udevd grabbed from systemd source, just like elogind.
So, why this dubious favoritism for eudev?
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No, there is no ignorance, but the question has been answered several thousand times before, since it is one of the most common defenses of systemd.
udev does have alternatives, not that well developed yet, but there is no rush because udev is not as intrusive. It does one thing and one thing only and it does it well. Systemd does many many things and many of them very poorly. It also continues to grow in reach of different parts of the system. The kernel has been pretty immune to it but who knows for how long.
The attempt is to refuse it where we can, the same way we can not refuse non-open non-free hardware. It is all we got. But where we do have alternatives it is only finances that push this very poor solution down peoples’ throats when there wasn’t a problem.
Among all the distributions I have seen elogind being used, nowhere has it been so pervasive of an adoption as in Slackware. So I dare question the motives, that’s all!
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Why you should question the motives of a distribution which was never anti-systemd? Just because it used ConsoleKit2 in the past?
The truth is that they just doesn’t like the init system from systemd, just like they doesn’t like s6 init system too. That does not makes them anti-s6 and anti-systemd.
BTW, looks like that elogind is not enough for Slackers…
Now they look for ways to implement the user target services like in systemd. 😉
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Well, nobody is perfect and even the great men do mistakes.
I guess that the Hysterical Mushroom made it clear to AlienBob that he did a big mistake lobbying for adopting ConsoleKit2 in Slackware and even lobbying the changes on KDE for supporting it.
The World would have been a better place if KDE never supported ConsoleKit2.
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Umm, what?
Even the LinuxFromScratch uses systemd, bro!
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/systemd/
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That’s true. LFS maintains both systemd version and sysvinit version, check by yourself:
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/blfs/view/
The 8.4 sysvinit version have CK2 and the 9.0 sysvinit version have elogind.
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