Popular mythology spread by IBM parrots elogind vs consolekit2 1.2.2

Thanks to the great work by Eric Koegel and Antoine Jacoutot we were not wrong again!

Parrots never think of what it is they say, they hear things (generally things are heard through highly paid and supported media that serve corporate and state interests) and reproduce the sound of them.  Not that they are dumb, but they can’t process rational language based communication. 

QUESTION: Why are you dumping consolekit2 and use elogind, that you know is just a significant piece of systemd, which further makes upstream reliance to systemd more acceptable and wide spread?

EXCUSE:  Consolekit is deprecated, it is unmaintained, it will never work with Wayland, and we must support wayland because that is the future.

QUESTION: Could consolekit2 be able to work with wayland?

EXCUSE: No, it never will!

QUESTION: Elogind, being a piece of the most convoluted piece of opensource software ever encountered is very big.  Shouldn’t this be a performance concern?

EXCUSE: No, because consolekit was also huge!


ANSWER:  Consolekit2 1.2.2 was released Dec.20 2020 and among its changes is a memory leak fix, NetBSD/OpenBSD fixes/compliance and more.  If you notice in the list of issues and discussion there has been a workaround to get ck2 to work with wayland in Gentoo since 2018. 

Consolekit2 is between a 1/5 to 1/6 of the size of elogind!


I am not speaking of tiny little parakeets that are 12cm long but real big ones, “developers”, who direct and control the fate and direction of popular distributions.  They bite, the scream real loud, they can fly as high as hawks and eagles, and have their beaks high up in the sky and refuse to talk to us common mortals.  While black hawks on the other hand don’t pretend like they are speaking or communicating their own minds, basically because media will not reproduce their voices as loud as the parrots.  So, are Hawks mute?  No, they just don’t pretend they know something because corporate officials handed them out notes and memos or propaganda.

github.com ConsoleKit2 release 1.22

ConsoleKit2 1.2.2

ajacoutot released this Dec 20, 2020

Stable release of ConsoleKit2

Changes since 1.2.1
Bug Fixes:

  • Change the inhibitor lock handling to use the named_pipe_path as a reference to prevent ending with empty “who” inhibitors
  • Inhibit: only disconnect the signal handler after the lock is removed to prevent ghost inhibitors

Misc Changes:

  • merge all changes from OpenBSD ports
  • merge all changes from NetBSD pkgsrc

Assets 2 Source code (zip) Source code (tar.gz)

 

I built consolekit2 in Obarun, from AUR and although Arch/AUR reports it as outdated, it builds 1.2.2 and I replaced Obarun’s pkg to make sure it works.  Although I don’t use either ck2 or dbus, or a DM for that matter, I used all three to test that it works and started lxde, lxqt, plasma, and various software within those to make sure it does work.  Its log didn’t produce any errors or warnings sent by anything I tried running.  I am willing to bet you that for months if I go around reddit or LinuxQuestions asking the parrots of void, slackware, adelie, devuan, why are they choosing elogind rather than consolekit2 they will all be screaming ck2 is deprecated, for months, if not years.

Some birds choose to fly free, and some are fed in cages or with their feet tied with wire to a post.  Keep on humming along Parrots!

 

From artix (cache from the old days when I thought they were great)

951K Oct 9 2019 …/pacman/pkg/elogind-241.3-4-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz
200K Oct 9 2019 …/pacman/pkg/libelogind-241.3-4-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz

From Obarun last 1.2.1 edition:

157K Apr 5 2020 ../pacman/pkg/consolekit2-1.2.1-7-x86_64.pkg.tar.xz

From Void back when they were sane and logical

159K Sep 18 2018 ../var/xbps/ConsoleKit2-1.2.1_2.x86_64.xbps   

<– before — after –>

116K Jun 26 2020 /var/cache/xbps/elogind-devel-243.4_3.x86_64.xbps
225K Jun 26 2020 /var/cache/xbps/libelogind-243.4_3.x86_64.xbps
692K Jun 26 2020 /var/cache/xbps/elogind-243.4_3.x86_64.xbps

Something that runs as a daemon based on a package that is about 5-6 times larger, providing the same service, should be a performance concern.  If not to the devs that decide to replace something with something else, at least to the voiceless user.

 

 

 

51 thoughts on “Popular mythology spread by IBM parrots elogind vs consolekit2 1.2.2

  1. You better read again, especially the bottom, it can get better with suggestions and “your research”.

    I sometimes get eager and trigger happy to send something out half the initial thoughts of what should be in a “report” have not yet materialized in written material.

    You know how they say that the reason to write is to organize our thoughts? It is all scattered in our heads like soup, then they turn into an orderly airplane meal 🙂

    Like

  2. Hi, IBM parrot here (at least that is how you try to depict me in your rants).
    Instead of spreading FUD, can you please point me EXACTLY where Gentoo offers ConsoleKit2 as a working solution for kwin_wayland?
    While you are searching, let me repeat again that UNTIL 2018 I had Slackware Plasma5 Wayland session working beautifully with ConsoleKit2. I discussed a lot with Erik Koegel and Martin Graesslin to get CK2 support code merged into kwin_x11 but in March 2018, this commit: https://github.com/KDE/kwin/commit/99376d38f69f6bcc13d7a8ebdb679b7c18e30586 made an end to the possibility to run kwin_wayland with CK2.
    I am very curious to have you show me how AFTER that commit, Gentoo was still able to support a Plasma5 Wayland session.
    Your drama and foulmouthing is the end of that I originally thought a very worth-while non-systemd blog.
    You fell through the cracks. PLONK!

    Like

  3. AlienBob, I don’t have any beef with you, it is not personal.

    Did you say? “Plasma 5 will not work without elogind” and a whole bunch of Slackers just accepted this as the holy grail of discoveries?

    Did you, or was it someone else in that Slackware forum who reported me and placed me under restriction for a month in LQ? But I have already explained enough, I can’t do it for a 6th time.

    That statement about Plasma and elogind did not contain “wayland”, so it is not an excuse to say that “I meant/he meant” Plasma on wayland will not run without elogind. Not the same.

    It is myth spreading, but as I mentioned in today’s consolekit2 release article, in Gentoo they had a workaround for making wayland run on ck2 since mid 2018. So, again you guys are wrong. What is impossible in Slackware, so they can justify all other choices, seems to be possible everywhere else.

    Hell, it was 3 years ago that the chief of Artix had declared as the primary reason to use elogind is so IF AND WHEN wayland works, it will need elogind, so they may as well adopt it earlier.

    Hi, IBM parrot here (at least that is how you try to depict me in your rants).

    You spread lies and myths around and you are calling my fact-checking as rants. I’ll just let readers decide for themselves. Maybe I am ranting about your myths!

    Instead of spreading FUD, can you please point me EXACTLY where Gentoo offers ConsoleKit2 as a working
    solution for kwin_wayland?

    Did you see a link for the ck2 github site? Look under issues, one of the last few 2nd-3rd from top, there is a huge comment with code for the workaround. Whether it is still working or not I wouldn’t know, I don’t like Gentoo that much myself.

    Don’t try to slip away as someone who deserves justice. Your statement is clear “Plasma 5 will not run without elogind” … whether you imply wayland or not is irrelevant! There was no mention of wayland in that post.

    Your drama and foulmouthing is the end of that I originally thought a very worth-while non-systemd blog.
    You fell through the cracks. PLONK!

    You tried to have me gagged in LinuxQuestions, you come here and pretend you placed posts that I removed, that you didn’t, and you think I will fall for the trick of returning the same ass fascist reaction and prevent you from writing? Again it is not personal, you could have just apologized and corrected your statement. I just pointed out that if plasma 5 runs and installs fine in Obarun with ck2 for years and even just yesterday as well, then your statement must be wrong.

    Why don’t you explain why pcmanfm will not run in slackware without elogind. I think Arch devs would really like to know how Slackware achieved this type of crappy transformation of fine and stable software. How about thunar, does it crash without elogind present?

    I don’t mind falling between the cracks, it is common here. I have apologized several times for being wrong.

    Like

  4. Quote: Something that runs as a daemon based on a package that is about 5-6 times larger, providing the same service, should be a performance concern. If not to the devs that decide to replace something with something else, at least to the voiceless user.

    Fungie, I like it when you use their “technical” arguments against them, and you are right. Even on the purely technical field, they whether speak nonsense or do lie. Whether dogs, pigs or sheep, as in Pink Floyd’s Animals (and The Animal Farm, of course).

    The users are not voiceless. They are silented, which may be worse. They are left with no say in the matter.

    Slacksters will say that Slackware is not a democracy, that it’s a benevolent dictature (just as the Linux kernel is too, isn’t it?) and if you are not okay with that, just go somewhere else, don’t come and play in our sandbox. Well, okay guys, go on playing in your sandbox. But don’t you talk crap when speaking with adults that do not believe all what they’re told, kids.

    Like

  5. Again, a post got eaten up by your site, so here it is again:

    It feels entirely personal if you write about me in your posts as being a dumbf*** and an “IBM Parrot” who “bites and screams” and “corporate officials handed them out notes”.
    May I remind you that I did not say “plasma5 does not work without elogind”. Please read the links I shared with you, instead of doing your usual cirkle-jerk of repeating what echoes back from your little bubble wall.
    I said “Plasma5 on Slackware has been running with ConsoleKit2 without any issue” and “kwin_x11 got code added to accept CK2 as equal alternative to systemd-logind”. I also said (but you obviously do not want to hear this) that kwin_wayland used to run on Slackware with CK2.
    I even blogged about that in 2017, so it is out there for everyone to read (well except you and your klan, obviously Oneirosopher is the parrot here if we have to point at one): https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/plasma5-wayland-works-on-slackware/
    But then in 2018 the KWIn developers added a hard dependency on the login1 protocol as implemented by systemd-logind and not supported by CK2. So, don’t put words in my mouth that “Plasma5 does not work without elogind”. And show me EXACTLY where and how Gentoo makes Plasma5 Wayland sessions work with CK2. Have you actually read the content of those issues on the CK2 git repository? I did, at the time they were posted, because just two weeks before, Martin Graesslin added his systemd-logind hard dependency and I was looking for ways around that.
    Show me the code, show me the commits. You know as well as I do that such code does not exist.

    About your complaint that pcmanfm won’t run in Slackware without elogind? It is totally irrelevant. pcmanfm is not part of Slackware and apparently the community packager of that application decided to enable elogin in its configuration. Why X11 depends on X11 now? I don’t know who told you that but Slackware compiles xorg-server with “–disable-systemd-logind” to this day. We do compile dbus against elogind (used to be CK2) though.
    Tell me again how elogind (which is a seat manager) can create a performance bottleneck? It does not do anything to a running system except managing a registration of your logins.
    Why not try to convince me with arguments for once? Show me the code, show me the commits.

    Like

  6. By the way FungalNet – I did not report you to the LQ moderators, I did not try to “gag” you in any way. I do not agree with your statements but I advocate open discussion. However I require a discussion that is based on facts and not on FUD.
    NO vague pointing to “somewhere the 21nd or 3rd from the top from that issue list and oh yeah I did not verify because I don’t like Gentoo and am convinced I am right anyway”. This is how QAnon and Trump followers try to bend straight what ‘s crooked. Don’t devolve into that what you are trying to fight.

    Like

  7. No man, I am just tired, and my eyes aren’t helping, so just to get your curiosity I don’t feel like spending another 3 hours into the consolekit git to find it. I promise though, tomorrow I’ll look for it and I will make a direct link to it in the article.

    Happy. It is logical deduction though that you were furious enough by my comments to come here and find me because I wasn’t responding in LQ and me being placed under restriction “not because what I implied about slackware” but “because I mentioned mentally disabled people” who couldn’t understand or pretended not to understand what I was saying.

    Again, I will provide you with the link (I really think it was on issues 3rd down the list) and it was the longest of all comments and the one that had code on it for the workaround. I somehow remember it as being from mid 2018.

    The issue in LQ though is irrelevant to wayland and I couldn’t care less if that piece of shit ever worked anywhere or everywhere. X was 20 years old when wayland started with high promises of replacing the complicated system. Now X is more than 30yo and wayland is more than 10, and it is not even alpha level, 2 desktops work so-so, and one of their own wm, sway, is the only thing working. Not on all common linux/bsd architectures, and with a ton of very specific dependencies from design that dictate what the entire system should be like in order for it to run. Remote activation is a “will not fix” issue. From the last kernel instruction and module processed and loaded, till the finest little bit displaying in your screen ONE COMPANY DOES IT ALL. Isn’t this a bit too alarming to call it open and free?

    You turn around and look at NetBSD, supposedly the better alternative to linux, and people are all into wayland and gnome working … Did you play pacman when you were young? I did, when it first came out. This is what IBM is playing right now, and it seems like it swallowed Slackware like a bunch of strawberries coming out as bonus.

    Like

  8. xinit used to work without ck2 running, didn’t it? Whether you compile a program with it enabled or not is not ultimately critical that it must be running otherwise the program exits with a specific fault code. I may not be a coder but I know that much. I know of a great deal of software that will complaint when started from terminal or by reading their individual logs that dbus is not running or logind couldn’t be reached, but they will continue to run. If you understand why the “warnings” come out and you are not concerned that to me is an acceptable way of doing things. Preventing something to run unless a login management system is not in place is ultimate bullshit. It is spyware at best! There is not any good reason it should be forced down users’ throats because NSA, IBM, Google, Facebook decided it should be enforced.

    Comprente?

    A daemon a service, are things that DO RUN ALL THE TIME, hence the name. They are loading their operational code into memory and do work while you try to do yours. But are they working for you or against you?
    I should have a choice to shut a service down if I don’t feel I need it, this and the little snitch called dbus.
    What about logging. One could argue it is more essential to have logging than a login manager. What if I don’t feel like having logs written anywhere. Should me choosing to stop the logging service prevent me to run the software? Why is cron shoved down users’ throats. Just because you use it doesn’t mean that everyone does.

    I just want a better easier way for my eyes than a console, so I use X, a wm, and a terminal of choice. The hell with having gparted drop down a soft delayed menu and clicking on it and using a user’s pw I can ruin the entire system and my precious data. How many people setup a private machine and prevent themselves from having sudo access? 99% of distros brag about autologin … then they think systemd is security! Yes it is national security poking down your pocket for evidence.

    Like

  9. Are you blocking scripts? Good man! If so, and use wp often, in the past couple of days things don’t work very well if you block gstatic.com I don’t know if it is active in commenting but their editor (classic editor) will not run without google’s spyware engine running scripts on top of WP’s sites.

    Like

  10. According to repology, consolekit* 1.2.2 is currently in:
    Crux 3.6 opt
    freshcode.club
    OpenBSD Ports
    (netbsd) pkgsrc current
    elderlinux Ravenports

    Like

  11. I noticed this yesterday, good site but not complete yet. Neither Obarun or Artix is in there yet, but Adelie, a beta project still 1.0.rc.. is getting as old as Debian wheezy…. is in there, as a contrast to Alpine. To give some credit to them, when I inquired why they had to choose elogind, the master-chief Adelie person, wrote me a long detailed response on how it got to the decision, that not everyone was agreeing, but it boiled down to human resources and willingness to patch and repackage desktop crap. They would rather focus on how solid the core system is and they will try to make the use of elogind as minimal as absolutely necessary.

    To such a response, the quality of it, even I, a common extremist troublemaker, had to take my hat off.
    Contact wise, she is a master worth of obeying and trusting her critical abilities without much questioning. It is very rare in linux, or any testosterone/adrenaline driven technical world for that matter.

    But even Void, and the way they carried out the transition from ck to elogind, like pulling the carpet from under your feet and saying “ooohhh,,, I am sorry, I didn’t see you standing on the carpet” WTF Void!!” they are saints of holly linux-deity, compared to the crap Slackware has pulled.

    When this blog started it was common knowledge that xxxBSD is systemd free. There was questioning on whether it was worth listing, and they are listed in the initial long list of nearly 100 some distros and forks without it. Taking a recent look, especially at the netBSD community, I am not that sure that it will take too long before it gets there. We have ataraxia on one side porting it to musl, and Gentoo on the other hand cleaning it up and making it more portable and configurable, there is so much hysteria about getting wayland/gnome fully functional in BSD, … don’t be surprised. O…zen..BSD will eventually say … why can’t we all get along! Legalize IT (systemd). Crux, yes I am thinking of adding it as the base for Kwort, which is listed, and I suspect but haven’t made sure myself, that Crux is clean. Having ck2 on the repositories and NOT having elogind are not mutually exclusive groups. The debian no-systemd branches are proof of this. Which to me makes more sense, use it just where it is absolutely necessary, keep ck2 available for anything else needing this crap, because really they are both crap … it is just the one is more invasive crap than the other.

    If and when I decide to make my own distro, if I get to that level and have the resources, I would just support a leaned out X, and some window-managers, some container/jailhouse solution, and no such “controllers” and “recorders” … why would I want to be spying on myself or trying to hack myself? 66 has recently created a tool that makes containing processes a breeze, it appears so simple you wonder why didn’t anyone else think of this before. But it is too-early to speak, it was just announced internally in the forum of obarun, but not officially added to the 66-tools pkg.

    Like

  12. I looked back at that LinuxQuestions topic on community building where you barged in. It is this post of your that started the discussion about the “lie by Slackware that Plasma5 does not work without elogind”. Actually it was you in post https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/what-can-we-do-to-build-a-larger-community-4175682665/page8.html#post6197391 that stated “There were a few mentions in slackware about consolekit and how their adoption of elogind, AND REMOVAL of consolekit, made KDE-plasma work. One trojan horse fixing all problems, handed down by a Blue Chip.”
    And then in fact – like you do in all your posts – you only stoke division by continuing to refer in your later posts to “that post higher up which contains the lie that Plasma5 does not work without elogind”. In fact you were the one writing down that lie and then trying to make it look that it was a statement by “us” Slackware users.

    Which means; that next to sharing with me the actual code that shows how Gentoo makes ConsoleKit2 work with Wayland, please also dig up the post(s) where Slackware’s documented statement is that elogind was required to make KDE Plasma5 work. I do not think you will ifnd it.

    If you want to be seen as a serious source of information, first do proper fact-finding and then confront the world with it.
    Otherwise your site is just another QAnon clone, sharing mis-information about other people and then claiming that by merely writing about it your mistruths have become actual facts.

    Like

  13. Ok correction, there is talk of Gentoo in the same thread the workaround is on Fedora without systemd, which makes it even harder than Gentoo https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2/issues/109#issuecomment-384908914

    There is nobody on that thread that says they tried this and failed.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by LuckyCyborg View Post
    11-05-20, 10:40 PM #107
    LuckyCyborg

    I believe that the latest Plasma5 will not work well with ConsoleKit2.

    Last edited by LuckyCyborg; 11-05-20 at 10:42 PM.
    You believe wrong

    https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/kde-plasma-5-hits-testing-4175684659/page8.html#post6182161

    This is the message that started it all, there is no mention of wayland in there neither is it a necessity for plasma to run on wayland. The statement was simply misleading. Instead of real human beings, like a gang of thugs terrorizing the outsider, everyone neglected the content of the message and jumped on me for being an outsider. I am an insider of linux, and if plasma and ck2 work in one linux it only takes a little work to get it to work on another.

    At the time the argument started I wasn’t aware of Slackware hadn’t published the switch to elogind, up until Dec 7th official Slackware only had ck2! So this is a triple foul, as ck2 is being manually removed from the system and some foreign to slackware installation of elogind is employed. But says nothing about wayland, which since I don’t give a shit about, I wouldn’t have bothered how one makes wayland crap work.

    BUT none of those gangsters came out and have a fair response to a fair comment. The statement “plasma5 will not work well with ck2 and elogind is needed” is WRONG. It was wrong then and it is wrong today.

    Being mentally deranged or taking weird psychotropic pills, which with your compulsive character is expected, you can come out and say it is a correct statement because plasma5 with ck2 will not work in MS-Windows7 …. and in your coordinated rational thinking that is an equivalent, and I was wrong and all your fellow gangsters “slackware or death brigade” are right. And I should be gagged for trying to correct an illusion and an incorrect statement/declaration.

    From all places, plasma works in Fedora with ck2 …. it is only slackware having problems. Even common script packages are screwed up and will not built in Slackware… give me a break. It took stinking 40′ to build 4 dependencies for obmenu-generator (a script, not even in need to be compiled) and eventually it failed.

    Anyway, keep talking, I provided you with references to what you seem to have a great interest, it was the third issue from the list of 16 in consolekit2 github site, LIKE I TOLD YOU BUT YOU ARE TOO BLIND TO SEE, and I pointed you to the message that started this fight that ended with me being banned on LQ.

    I don’t have anything more to say to you …… I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think, what you want to believe, what your intentions are and who is paying you. I’ve had enough of your crap!

    Like

  14. At the time the argument started I wasn’t aware of Slackware hadn’t published the switch to elogind, up until Dec 7th official Slackware only had ck2! So this is a triple foul, as ck2 is being manually removed from the system and some foreign to slackware installation of elogind is employed. But says nothing about wayland, which since I don’t give a shit about, I wouldn’t have bothered how one makes wayland crap work.

    That “foreign of Slackware” installation of elogind which you talk about, was from the “/testing” folder of Slackware-current tree, which is the very development tree of Slackware.

    You Sir, blinded by your extremist views and hate toward IBM, and knowing nothing about the development process of Slackware, you assume that LuckyCyborg lied.

    In fact, he talked about the Plasma5 (and XFCE) build present at that time on “/testing” folder, which was built against elogind (which itself was there) then as you convinced yourself, that Plasma5 build does NOT work with ConsoleKit2.

    I hope we agree, from YOUR OWN experiences that once the Slackware packages are built against elogind, this elogind is NOT optional anymore. Hence, you must install it to use those features.

    However, the elogind does not showed its head directly on “/testing” folder of slackware-current.

    Mr. Eric Hameleers and Mr. Robby Workman published since the last Summer builds of Plasma5 and XFCE, both requiring (unconditionally) elogind, which was shipped also.

    The whole process of integration of elogind and moving from ConsoleKit2 to elogind was utterly visible to anyone with interests on Slackware development.

    PS1. I am the one who warned you that the LinuxQuestions moderators will not tolerate your insults proffered in that forum against other users. And for your own knowledge, the very “root” of LinuxQuestions have the habit to read thoughtfully the treads from the Slackware Forum, because this is The Official Forum of Slackware.

    You Sir, even being friendly warned, you preferred to make jokes about big Poppa, instead to edit your questionable post, then why you wonder now that that big Poppa slapped your sorry ass for a month?

    PS2. I asked you on LQ about proofs that the unmodified and unpatched latest Plasma5 with work both on X11 and Wayland while using ConsoleKit2, as you claim. I do not received a response yet.

    Like

  15. Ok correction, there is talk of Gentoo in the same thread the workaround is on Fedora without systemd, which makes it even harder than Gentoo https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2/issues/109#issuecomment-384908914

    There is nobody on that thread that says they tried this and failed.

    As a Fedora user since at least 10 years, I would like to confirm you that Fedora was the first distribution to adopt systemd, and use it until present, with no signs to retire it.

    No, systemd is not optional in Fedora, please stop spreading lies.

    Like

  16. Being mentally deranged or taking weird psychotropic pills, which with your compulsive character is expected, you can come out and say it is a correct statement because plasma5 with ck2 will not work in MS-Windows7 …. and in your coordinated rational thinking that is an equivalent, and I was wrong and all your fellow gangsters “slackware or death brigade” are right. And I should be gagged for trying to correct an illusion and an incorrect statement/declaration.

    The single one who need medical help may be the owner of this blog.

    The Slackware users wanted a fully functional Plasma5 on both X11 and Wayland, and they got it.

    For your own knowledge, the one who first successfully ported the elogind and its proper setup to Slackware is no one other than a simple Slackware user and your “enemy” of choice: LuckyCyborg.

    Like

  17. I don’t have anything more to say to you …… I don’t give a rat’s ass what you think, what you want to believe, what your intentions are and who is paying you. I’ve had enough of your crap!

    That’s certainly demonstrated by your series of posts against Slackware, where you call with affection the Slackware users likes of “psychopaths” or “neanderthals” because the are “traitors” of the “true way” of anti-systemd and anti-IBM.

    I regret sincerely that I visited this blog and I read the insults which you proffer against people who have nothing to do with your rather fascist views.

    I regret only a thing: that you aren’t a Chinese, and this blog is not hosted on China. You know why?

    Everybody can open a blog in China, as anywhere. And they aren’t “controlled by State” as a common myth says.

    BUT, by the law, they are considered journalists, and they should register their blog as any newspaper business as company.

    AND if someone dare to insult people like you do usually, they will be certainly sued, and they will pay heavy damages to every one of their “neanderthals”, which in your case will be tens of thousands. Certainly, that’s worth of a Class Suit.

    Like

  18. The link right above is not my saying, it is a Fedora user contributing code for a workaround, SPECIFICALLY saying that there is NO SYSTEMD on his system (you have to be an utter fool to believe that it is not possible in any distribution) and that he made it work with consolekit.

    Don’t you know how to read, I’ve never even looked at a screen of a system running Fedora, and hope to never have to. But if you paid me to extract systemd and install anything else instead I would.

    No, systemd is not optional in Fedora, please stop spreading lies.

    What unix system do you know of that it is impossible to remove software from. Is the Slackware chief shipping out some magic pills to you people?

    Like

  19. I will really need some medical help if I keep reading and reacting to all of your nonsense.
    You think I care if you want to be ridiculed publicly and feel this blog up with comments.

    Again, for the 18th time, he said nothing of Wayland, he said plasma5 does not work with ck2. And his perception is wrong and the IBM MYTH shouldn’t be spread around uncontested.

    The wayland issue came 10 messages later trying to cover up the lie, as “plasma5 with wayland doesn’t work with ck2”. To the eyes of the dazed and confused that statement (which came much later) is equivalent to the Myth-Producer LuckyCybord’s earlier statement. How unreasonable? I guess for people tolerating Unix’s most flaky system for years, Slackware, both statements are equivalent. This is why half the packages in the “community repositories” fail to build.

    Now you found a reason why the boat is sinking. It is all because of me bad mouthing Slackware. I wrote an article a while ago about Slackel being nice. I came back recently and took a closer look, and then Slackware broke the system by shoe-horning elogind everywhere.

    NOW, it is all fair play, because elogind has been in testing for a long while. PLEASE don’t let me find any messages by Slackware gurus, like BobThe Alien from another galaxy, that discourage people from using testing. Because you are acting as it is all OK because it was in testing and I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER!

    Like

  20. Can you sign a public statement that you are not and have never been an IBM or RedHat employee? It sounds like McKarthyism all over again, but for you clowns to be all over me for trying to correct a false statement in LQ, your IBM bonus must be in jeopardy. There is always a motive when there is ferocity.

    Normal people wouldn’t just care what any fool said in a general forum, right or wrong.

    Fedora is RH and RH has been a secret little side project for IBM for more than 10 years. I know the interests and the tendencies, I have seen them. I may not have evidence but I see the patterns.

    Like

  21. LinuxQuestions have the habit to read thoughtfully the treads from the Slackware Forum, because this is The Official Forum of Slackware.

    So if I make a distribution and call it DeadBeatSlackShit-OS and make my official forum in LQ, would I get preferential treatment and try to gag someone who is trying to correct the spread of lies and myths on LQ?

    Nice, you are saying that the entire LQ is just as crappy as the Slackware community of liars.

    I stand corrected, I suddenly don’t feel excluded at all.

    The rational connections made by some of you fascinate me.

    Like

  22. I looked back at that LinuxQuestions topic on community building where you barged in

    Classic characteristic of a fascist populist is to speak this way, in terms of us and “him/them”. Isolate the victim and point the finger to the gang to terrorize the opponent, with tons of lies, populism, and scare tactics.

    The only QAnon I see here is you and your fellow IBM puppets defending the superiority of their master and encouraging the animosity of your tribe. NOT a single person in the entire community did come out and say “hey, that statement made by dazed and confused Cyborg-Plasma-Head is actually wrong, Fungalnet is right, the statement should have said that KDE/Plasma5 WITH wayland doesn’t work well with consolekit.

    Instead it didn’t matter what LIE Cyborg was spreading, it matter that I was identified as a NON-slackware user and an Obarun user, therefore I must be wrong no matter what I say.

    You are such pathetic little losers whining about the deity of your fan club. His choices are well paid, don’t you worry about the deity. He just took Slackware and passed it all to you know who!

    Like

  23. Again, for the 18th time, he said nothing of Wayland, he said plasma5 does not work with ck2. And his perception is wrong and the IBM MYTH shouldn’t be spread around uncontested.

    Again, you come in a thread from the Slackware Forum with the name “KDE Plasma5 Hits Testing!”, where they discuss about the Plasma5 packages set published on “/testing” and which are built against elogind (shipped also itself on this place), and you grab from context a single sentence, yelling: MYTH?

    LuckyCyborg does not made there a generic statement, but he responded to someone who asked a question about a particular packages set for Slackware and about to be merged into main tree, as you observed latter.

    Originally Posted by Jeebizz
    Not dual booting, but still it asked for a password so I assume it was my root password – but I still got the error. Is this a bug in Plasma then? Or, since it is /testing , and elogind might have something to do with it, since technically consolkit2 is in play?

    I believe that the latest Plasma5 will not work well with ConsoleKit2.

    And regarding with ConsoleKit2 vs. elogind, even it is supposed to be started only one by init scripts, both elogind and ConsoleKit daemons could be called in demand via DBUS, as some friends of mine claims from their experiences.

    Then having both in the system is probably a recipe for disaster.

    With all respect, apparently you are unaware what is this “/testing” about they talk. It is just a folder from the development tree of Slackware, and where the Slackware maintainer pushes some packages for last minute testing before to be merged into main folder.

    On October 5, 2020 there was a set of packages,t named “vtown” which contained the Plasma5 next to be merged and its dependencies, built against elogind and including elogind.

    The LuckyCuyborg’s claims are confirmed even by yourself, after your experiences with those Slackware forks, where as you claims, many packages does not work without elogind.

    After the upgrade, not only xinit/startx needed elogind to start an X session, even some software that have never needed consolekit2 or elogind or systemd to run, would fail if you removed or shut-down elogind. Like pcmanfm.

    They didn’t just add elogind for functionality of gnome, and/or wayland for gnome and plasma, maybe sway as well is added in slackware, who knows, AND WHO CARES, they have added IT everywhere they possibly could.

    Those are your own words, grabbed from another post of your anti-Slackware campaign.

    As someone who was there, I confirm you that a similar experience (nothing works without elogind) would had someone who tried to install the Plasma5 from “/testing” on October 5.

    Can you sign a public statement that you are not and have never been an IBM or RedHat employee? It sounds like McKarthyism all over again, but for you clowns to be all over me for trying to correct a false statement in LQ, your IBM bonus must be in jeopardy. There is always a motive when there is ferocity.

    With all respect, all we see is a clown who grabbed from context a whatever phrase and become hysteric, worth of several posts against Slackware on his blog, after he did a scandal in our forum.

    I may ask you who pays you for this anti-Slackware campaign?

    Also, I may ask you to produce a proof of statement made by the Slackware maintainer where he claimed that Slackware is a anti-systemd Linux distribution, to eventually discuss about a betrayal of Noble Cause of Anti-systemd Movement?

    BTW, I am a Chinese who lived his entire life on Popular Republic of China, I work as Middle School teacher and I teach the children the Japanese language.

    As a teacher, I would like to have you write on the board for 1000 times: Slackware is not anti-systemd.

    Maybe this way you’ll finally understand that we have no connection with your extremist views.

    Like

  24. NOT a single person in the entire community did come out and say “hey, that statement made by dazed and confused Cyborg-Plasma-Head is actually wrong, Fungalnet is right, the statement should have said that KDE/Plasma5 WITH wayland doesn’t work well with consolekit.

    LuckyCyborg is not a head developer on Slackware.

    He’s just a simple user (along with some others) who had particular interests on making elogind work on Slackware. As he claims, his interests was just to make skypeforlinux to work and also to make Plasma5 to work properly on Wayland, succeeding on both.

    His experiments and experience with Wayland/Plasma5 was appreciated by the Maintainer of KDE subsystem on Slackware – Mr. Eric Hameleers, who meantime looked for a solution to make elogind and Wayland/Plasma5 work, and who adopted the elogind on his Plasma5 builds from KTown, first elogind powered build being published on June 19, 2020.

    https://alien.slackbook.org/blog/replacing-consolekit2-with-elogind-first-steps/

    The rest is history.

    Only that six months later an anti-systemd extremist wakes up to fix the things on the Slackware and its forum.

    Like

  25. The users are not voiceless. They are silented, which may be worse. They are left with no say in the matter.

    That’s snother piece of popular mythology spread by anti-systemd extremists…

    No, at least on Slackware the users wasn’t silenced.

    Contrary, the Slackware users asked for a fully functional KDE Plasma5 working on both X11 and Wayland and their wishes had been heard.

    Like

  26. Classic characteristic of a fascist populist is to speak this way, in terms of us and “him/them”. Isolate the victim and point the finger to the gang to terrorize the opponent, with tons of lies, populism, and scare tactics.

    Did you are aware that you just described the politics which yourself do?

    Instead it didn’t matter what LIE Cyborg was spreading, it matter that I was identified as a NON-slackware user and an Obarun user, therefore I must be wrong no matter what I say.

    So, now you are a poor Obarun user persecuted by the villainous Slackers?

    Usually the Slackers believes that the s6 init system and its likes is as worst like is the one from systemd, and they despise all equally.

    However, how many Slackers you seen jumping on the Obarun forum to yell that the s6 sucks and that you are no better than the systemd fans? No one, huh?

    Meanwhile you keep to insult us about a fact you agree yourself. Who is the fascist?

    The link right above is not my saying, it is a Fedora user contributing code for a workaround, SPECIFICALLY saying that there is NO SYSTEMD on his system (you have to be an utter fool to believe that it is not possible in any distribution) and that he made it work with consolekit.

    Fedora, as any Linux distribution, can be customized as the user likes, if s/he have enough experience. Certainly, someone experienced enough can replace systemd with the SysV init system and ConsoleKit2, then rebuilt half of packages.

    BUT, the Fedora itself as shipped officially, it’s systemd only.

    I tell you from my own experience, as I use Fedora since longer time than Slackware.

    I know that may look hard to believe to devotees like the anti-systemd people, but there are many who use multiple Linux distributions.

    I for one, I use Slackware, Fedora and openSUSE. And I appreciate them equally.

    Like

  27. If you have rational arguments and a base for criticism I couldn’t care less whether you do it here or elsewhere. I am not in the Obarun team, their forum is not my territory, and neither do I consider this as such.

    LinuxQuestions though is a forum for all and any distributions and all and any linux users, the slackware corner is not fenced with barb wire. So when a user does a search on plasma5 and consolekit and ends up at that silly statement by cyborg, I think the user is mislead and dismisses the possibility of getting plasma5 to work with consolekit2. Which is my point exactly, the statement is a myth and it is wrong. It has nothing to do with gentoo, or obarun, or crux, or anything else. It has to do specifically with two pieces/groups of sw. Current KDE/Plasma and current Consolekit2.

    Wayland is brought in as an excuse that the myth is not as much of a myth when you add wayland to the equation, and for this I have doubts as well, because there seems to be evidence that even that is possible. Although I don’t see the purpose of getting garbage to work as alpha testing for IBM’s experimental research facilities. They should pay testers to develop their software, open or not.

    Now about you Chinese explanation, which doesn’t seem to fit anywhere in the discussion, and that 1/3 of the population in China have been subjected to obey a western corporate emperor instead of a dead fascist emperor, I’d rather not elaborate. There is nothing NOTHING good that can come out of the western industrial financial complex for humanity. Only pain and destruction ever comes out of it.

    I wonder though, if Pol Pot was alive and among us, which one would he shoot in the head, you or me?

    Like

  28. If you are a western industrial/corporate/financial puppet, anything that offends your grand master is extremism.
    Neoliberalism is extremism. Neoliberalism is terrorism against all life and humanity in specific. Neoliberalism is the reason we, on this planet, are in the verge of disaster and extinction.

    I am just a centrist conservative communist fighting for the liberation of land and people from the chains and destruction this “machine” has been engaged in for more than a century.

    Like

  29. So handing out Slackware to the control of IBM is not Cyborg’s fault, it is that no-good Dutch agent alienbob! I hope he lives well with his gift from America.

    Like

  30. I didn’t come to no Slackware forum, I came to LinuxQuestions where I have been a member for years.
    About the only ones who have had a problem with my presence are IBM puppets, specificall ALL slackware users.

    Like

  31. So handing out Slackware to the control of IBM is not Cyborg’s fault, it is that no-good Dutch agent alienbob! I hope he lives well with his gift from America.

    The Slackware Linux is a product of Slackware, Inc. owned by Patrick Volkerding, who’s the single decision maker on Slackware.

    AlienBOB is one of P. Volkerding’s lieutenants and likely he just executed the orders.

    However, I believe that is no one business, and there I include you, about what do P. Volkerding on his own business.

    Additionally, your disrespect for people is dismaying. AlienBOB did much for open-source, and especially for Slackware. You can even thanks him that he’s behind of ConsoleKit2 support on KDE software.

    About the only ones who have had a problem with my presence are IBM puppets, specificall ALL slackware users.

    Did you use an operating system which uses the Linux kernel, UDEV or an X.org server?

    If yes, you are an IBM/RedHat puppet too, because they are one of the contributors on the Linux and the UDEV and X.org are essentially maintained by them.

    But, you are the worst kind of puppet: the one who bites the master hand.

    Like

  32. I am just a centrist conservative communist fighting for the liberation of land and people from the chains and destruction this “machine” has been engaged in for more than a century.

    Please do not explain my how the hell you are both of center right and far left. I am not curious and I label it a “woke” thing.

    But, I am kinda dismayed learning that you are a fan of Pol Pot…

    Hey! What’s wrong with Kim Jong Un? He’s too soft after your tastes? He do not made death camps for his own people like Pol Pot, but at least they says that there are suspicions that he executed his uncle with an anti-aerial gun…

    Or you consider he’s too humanitarian?

    Like

  33. I suggest you go learn some more English, and take some medication to calm down before you have a stroke. Under this form of communication there can’t be much communication, at least not with me.

    Like

  34. Yeah, follow the money, that is what I said. So AlienBlob and Volkerding and the entire gang of puppets should stop arguing on technical merits what they do to serve (self serve) economic interests.

    But why are getting so upset if your own economic interests are not offended by what I say here?

    Hmmmm….!!!

    Like

  35. But why are getting so upset if your own economic interests are not offended by what I say here?

    Hmmmm….!!!

    I use SUSE, so I have no money in this game.

    However, I do not believe in the hate speech, especially when is about people who really did something for open-source, like is Patrick Volkerding or Eric Hameleers.

    Also, looks obviously that the antisystemdism does not sell, so I do not blame them.

    Like

  36. Yeah, follow the money, that is what I said. So AlienBlob and Volkerding and the entire gang of
    puppets should stop arguing on technical merits what they do to serve (self serve) economic
    interests.

    But why are getting so upset if your own economic interests are not offended by what I say here?

    Hmmmm….!!!

    Economic interests you say?
    Funny enough Pat Volkerding makes Slackware available to you and everyone else for free, since day one. If you want to help getting bread on the table you contribute financially, but there is zero pressure to do so. Also funny enough, for me Slackware is a hobby and I have a daytime job that earns the bread on my table. And I work hard for that.
    Also funny is that you keep calling me names; “AlienBlob” is purposely insulting, The “no-good Dutch agent”, “IBM puppets”, “western industrial/corporate/financial puppet”, “fascist populist”, “mentally deranged” to address me gets long in the tooth don’t you think? Rational discussion based on facts never requires the use of insults.
    It’s quite apparent from your own posts here above that you do not care for facts and technical merits.
    Note that LuckyCyborg is just a regular Slackware user, not part of the development team. He, like you, is free to think and express his thoughts even when they are not completely to the point. BUt – he does not speak on behalf of Slackware.
    Zhao Lin expressed very detailed where your fault lies with the interpretation of LuckyCyborg’s words – you took them out of context and used them to slander Slackware and its community.
    And you also falsely claim that nobody did anything to resolve the verbal inconsistencies. In fact, I posted the following to get all the facts straight in that topic and kill the smoke generators: https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/what-can-we-do-to-build-a-larger-community-4175682665/page10.html#post6197692 ; unfortunately you never reacted to that information with “thanks, now I get it”.

    By the way, I used to work for IBM, until they fired me through a staff reduction program. I bear them no ill will, I found a new job and that’s how it works. In fact, Linux would not have been where it is now, if not for the multi-billion dollar investments into open source software by IBM. Get it? All of that money went into the code you are now using for free.
    I worked with Slackware Linux and open source software before I worked for IBM, I was an open source / open standards consultant while I worked there, and I continued improving Slackware, Linux in general and helping the open source community after I left. What is your contribution to open source and open standards? Slander, libel, insult? Cool. Not.

    Like

  37. Linux was infinitely much better before IBM and the corporate members of the Linux Fornication ruined it systemdatically.

    Like

  38. Linux was infinitely much better before IBM and the corporate members of the Linux Fornication ruined it systemdatically.

    When was that?

    Without corporate support, the GNU/Linux would have been since its invention just like are today the GNU/Hurd or Minix.

    Heck, I remember that long time ago was even agreed that Minix is a better kernel design than Linux (that’s probably also why also Intel chosen it for its mission critical Management Engine from motherboards), but the Linux was lucky enough to attract instead the corporations attention.

    If you want to no be a corporate puppet, feel free to use Minix or GNU/Hurd.

    They need users too.

    Like

  39. This is a logical fallacy, what would open free software be excluding multinational corporations contributions?

    The people who develop software and share it with “free” licensing, and who are capable of contributing, would do so in a different way if there wasn’t corporate involvement. So things like minix and hurd may have been much more advanced and much more manageable as projects than the mega-corporate projects. It would have been what it could, if GNU had set stricter parameters in what and who can play and who is excluded.

    It is the same as with the initial topic, the presence of freedesktop.COM created a node of influence. More users fell for the candy, more developers turned to contribute under certain “platforms”. Qt is just as bad in this respect as its counterparts. The more widespread the use of systemd became the more developers used it and its tools and made alternative functionality more cumbersome. All this work that takes up resources to readjust software so they work without systemd’s parasitic presence is a waste of resources, caused by the multinational corporations’ presence.

    Linus/x was not immune from diving into the candy, and who can blame the individuals from wanting to survive better. But rules should be set by organizations of people not by individual interests. And when I say organizations of people I mean it specifically, corporations and people are not the same and can not organize together. In my view they contradict each others’ interests because the one is by definition formed to exploit, and the other by definition again will be exploited if the first is to exploit.

    Hyperbola is giving up the fight in Linux because as the last libre-kernel is deprecated there is no way in making a libre kernel anymore. If this corporate presence wasn’t so influential and development could have separated there would have been people that could organize and fork the last good libre kernel and develop it further, with a wiser selection of hw to support, and wiser file systems to support, etc. Fashion is shoving in rapid rates Oracle’s and Facebook’s riddles of sw into the kernel. Just watch, before 21 is over, zfs will be a maintstay of the kernel, and zstd will be inherited through zfs. Most distros will leave this spyware enabled, as their policy is to leave the defaults as they come from upstream.

    Game over. The only open/free software there will be would be under the total control of 3-4-5 mega corporations. They can pull an UEFI trick and ban any open/free software that do not have a certificate of “security”, which might cost to obtain 10 times the budget of some small software developers. Therefore, things like sinit/ssm, minit, perp, runit, s6, 66, will not be certified by “linux”. You may have to hack the hw to be able to install and run non-certified sw.

    But there are other scenarios as well, much much worse than what I just described.

    The fact is that Linux is developing into a system that makes every machine a dummy terminal for multinationals and state security agencies. It is the prime directive they jointly are complying by. There can never be data in the hands of individuals beyond the reach of corporate/state scope. It is an orchistrated attack on the the very foundation of open/free software, to take control of your own. You can have control but under strict supervision and visibility.

    It may be futile at this point of development to fight in this front, but the struggle makes it worthwhile and no struggle has ever gone to waste. It is the only reason humanity developed, not by complying but resisting totalitarianism and social control.

    Like

  40. Hello guys, please forgive my bad English…

    Pffff…

    Please guys, stop the fight, it’s really useless…

    If you check at LinuxFromScratch, you will see that PAM and elogind have already been integrated on 9.0 version from september 2019.

    And this the same for all major Linux distros.

    I don’t say if it is good or bad, I just say that’s a fact.

    I am actually working on a distro based on Slackware without elogind, PAM, wayland and many other “features” I consider as total crap so, if you want to make a fork, please consider to take a look at why I am proposing.

    Unfortunately for you my work is especially intended for a French-speaking audience even if my work includes all translations for all languages supported by the system.

    I will try to make a multilingual version soon, but…

    Stay confident, I will give you a version without all concerned issues to remain in the KISS way of life.

    Stay tuned, we can make a better world for all if we are working on it instead of being puppets…

    Like

  41. Hello Yann, welcome
    I changed the missing L in your message.
    I don’t know of any participants here who are native English speakers, there may be some, but most of us manage to communicate with this one Unix language 🙂

    Your contributions are welcome, as long as they don’t involve part of the disease (systemd, elogind, wayland, pulseaudio, gnome, etc.) they have a home here.

    I’ve been working on an article for a while now, on how to do an installation step by step based on Obarun/Arch and how I set up things with a KIS(systemd users) principle, as a response to those that say I criticise and don’t offer anything. No logind of any form (ck or systemd derived), no dbus, no Display manager, just openbox (or your wm of choice – except for this new trojan called sway). It differs a bit from Obarun standard installations or its openbox flavor.

    After it is done I can modify it a little bit and achieve the same results with Void, also with s6 and 66.

    The idea is that someone can just take the article, comment out the explanations, and use it as an installation script, modify it to their liking, and stop relying on dummy software called installers, especially the most dumb of them all, Calamares.

    That is what I call empowerment. Knowledge and wide distribution of it.

    Like

  42. If you have it ready in French send it as a comment and maybe between oneirosopher and myself we can translate it and repost it in English.

    Some people, perceive criticism as fighting. That is their problem! I haven’t written a single word in LQ for nearly three weeks now, and today still I get a private message by some michaelk threatening me to be obedient!

    Like

  43. as long as they don’t involve part of the disease (systemd, elogind, wayland, pulseaudio, gnome, etc.) they have a home here.

    Excuse my ignorance, but isn’t also eudev part of “the disease” ?

    As you known well, the eudev is systemd-udevd grabbed from systemd source, just like elogind.

    So, why this dubious favoritism for eudev?

    Like

  44. No, there is no ignorance, but the question has been answered several thousand times before, since it is one of the most common defenses of systemd.

    udev does have alternatives, not that well developed yet, but there is no rush because udev is not as intrusive. It does one thing and one thing only and it does it well. Systemd does many many things and many of them very poorly. It also continues to grow in reach of different parts of the system. The kernel has been pretty immune to it but who knows for how long.

    The attempt is to refuse it where we can, the same way we can not refuse non-open non-free hardware. It is all we got. But where we do have alternatives it is only finances that push this very poor solution down peoples’ throats when there wasn’t a problem.

    Among all the distributions I have seen elogind being used, nowhere has it been so pervasive of an adoption as in Slackware. So I dare question the motives, that’s all!

    Like

  45. Among all the distributions I have seen elogind being used, nowhere has it been so pervasive of an adoption as in Slackware. So I dare question the motives, that’s all!

    Why you should question the motives of a distribution which was never anti-systemd? Just because it used ConsoleKit2 in the past?

    The truth is that they just doesn’t like the init system from systemd, just like they doesn’t like s6 init system too. That does not makes them anti-s6 and anti-systemd.

    BTW, looks like that elogind is not enough for Slackers…

    Now they look for ways to implement the user target services like in systemd. 😉

    Like

  46. Just because it used ConsoleKit2 in the past?

    Well, nobody is perfect and even the great men do mistakes.

    I guess that the Hysterical Mushroom made it clear to AlienBob that he did a big mistake lobbying for adopting ConsoleKit2 in Slackware and even lobbying the changes on KDE for supporting it.

    The World would have been a better place if KDE never supported ConsoleKit2.

    Like

  47. Pingback: Popular mythology spread by #IBM parrots #elogind vs #consolekit2 1… | Dr. Roy Schestowitz (罗伊)

If your comment is considered off-topic a new topic will be created with your comment to continue a different discussion. This community is based on open and free communication, meaning we must all respect all in minimizing the exercise of freedom to disrupt such communication. Feel free to post what you think but keep in mind the subject matter discussed. It is just as easy to start a new topic as it is to dilute the content of an existing discussion.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.