Knoppix defies the “mother-ship” and leaves systemd OUT!

Knoppix LogoIt is hard to tell from their web-site, at least if you don’t speak German and rely on the English text, that Knopper, founder or Knoppix, has made an effort from some time to provide freedom in init systems,  After getting sysvinit to work (once again on a debian based distribution) this latest version 8.6 not only does it ship without systemd and associates, it contains a conflict pkg that prevents systemd from reinstalling.  The package is called “no-systemd”.  We welcome Knoppix to the wide non-systemd community and we wish it endless popularity.

The pkg lists of comparing the last two editions 8.2 and 8.6 (and a mysterious 8.4), reveal the effort.  8.6 pkg list  8.2 pkg list

AntiX has a package called systemd-must-die which is very similar 🙂

Since it is all debian based you can seek and install both and compare.

8 thoughts on “Knoppix defies the “mother-ship” and leaves systemd OUT!

  1. and elogind … but still better than systemd-libs, or is it the same? 🙂
    Give them some time, it seems they found an easy solution to the transition, “detoxification” takes time.

    When are we going to see an alternative to sysvinit in Antix? Devuan has OpenRC for nearly 2 years. There is a project with S6 and 66, unfortunately based on devuan not antix.


  2. @fungalnet

    Elogind has nothing to do with systemd init, it’s a session manager.
    From the elogind project: “Elogind is the systemd project’s “logind”, extracted out to be a standalone daemon. It integrates with PAM to know the set of users that are logged in to a system and whether they are logged in graphically, on the console, or remotely.”

    A lot of distro in your 78 linux distributions list use elogind. Some of them moved to elogind because of the unmaintained and in some circumstances problematic Consolekit2.

    If on your side you consider elogin being systemd you should review this list which will shrink the number of systemd-free distro.

    Since in the past I had proposed a special edition of Obarun KDE Live with elogind, but the enthusiasm was not shared, I decided to build my own distro, a fork of Obarun, with s6/66/elogind and I can tell you that I will never come back to Consolekit2.

    No more user permissions denied, and loginctrl come to the rescue when after a QT / KDE updates I can not use the GUI icons to reboot / logout / shutdown.

    And finally to conclude:

    pacman -Qs systemd
    local/elogind 241.3-3
    The systemd project’s logind, extracted to a standalone package
    local/polkit 0.116-4
    PolyciKit with elogind support for non-systemd systems

    My distro is systemd-free with a beautiful combination of S6/66 and elogind. 🙂


  3. Not just many distros from the list use elogind, but I think most do. I know that elogind is a piece off of systemd and is unrelated to the init, I just don’t know how easy it is for upstream pkgs to have dependencies substituted from one dependency for the other. I assume with elogind present thinks work easier than having to make equivalent ck2 substitutions. Some distros that depend on others (debian, arch) seem to have made a clear decision from the start to adopt elogind, some struggle with ck2. Some struggle with ck2 and add elogind in their repositories for people wanting to make debian/arch software run as they come.

    Correct me if I am wrong, I haven’t done much packaging myself. I tried just enough to think I know how to do it, like making pkgbuild files for .deb packages, even though dpkg is available in AUR.

    Now, for my use, once I figured that most of the stuff that I use doesn’t require elogind or consolekit2 I have been living without either. I’d rather remain conscious of what needs what rights and give them manually. As I understand it both of these two pieces of software come from the same source of spreading dependencies like they are christmas cookes.

    This is Leonard’s daughter


  4. From what I know, some distro with both Consolekit2 and elogind use the package naming dbus-elogind, polkit-elogind, etc… for packages built with elogind support. From there, the transition from one solution to another is specific to the distribution. On my side after a few days of testing elogind, I did not bother with that. I have few pkgbuild with elogind support, a local repository with an entry on top of the pacman.conf repo list. I can perfom Obarun updates without problems. Sometimes my packages with elogind are not up2date, but it has never affected the system.


  5. antiX ships with elogind since it makes it much, much easier to keep systemd out (at least on Debian). antiX-19 (and testing/sid) no longer need our nosystemd repos since we ship with libpam-elogind-compat (pulled from Debian sid repos, since some Debian devs refused to put the package in testing and buster). So, we the devs gain by not spending hours of our time stripping out systemd (usually libsystemd0) dependencies and also users gain, especially those runing sid/testing, because their upgrades are less likely to break.

    Re – other init systems on antiX. Maybe in the future. Presently, our team is too small to support more than 1 init system.


  6. I hope you don’t mind if I hack it some more and install s6 and 66 on it.
    s6 has been broken almost intentionally by the maintainer on debian by placing execline somewhere other than /usr/bin/ … after this is repaired by installing 66 and oblibs in it and the magic of boot-66serv the system boots effortlessly.


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