Will the non-systemd community run out of steam?

The explosion on interest on Devuan seems to have reached its current capacity to deal with bugs.  Judging from the absence of feedback on the Dev1 forum on issues, lack of any recent updates, the summer vacation excuse seems to be running out of time.  It is easy for us to judge and criticize but we reach the point of cruelty unless we have dealt with development itself.  The interdependence of packaging is so complex that at some point the whole project needs to halt, fill all the holes opened, and then be able to move to a next step.  I suspect that part of the problem has been on putting too many eggs in a broken basket.  The basket in this case was Debian Jessie which had issues and in the past year it was put on hold to help speed up the delayed development of Stretch.  Stretch has had so much re-engineering that much of it can not transfer to Jessie.  While Debian went into freeze, testing/Stretch had hundreds of bugs open, while Jessie had four times as many.  Devuan’s first stable edition, Devuan 1.0 – Jessie, came at an unfortunate time when Jessie was a mess.  Patience and belief on the potential of the system can be rewarding.  At the moment Jessie seems stable and is just lacking the expected development.  Meanwhile ascii is not that bad for most of us, and it also seems to be lacking any development.  But both these systems seem stable enough to work on.  They seem more like fixed distributions than rolling.    Meanwhile, the time of extended support of Debian wheezy is clicking fast.  With all troubles systemd has developed especially for server-enterprise systems, when Wheezy will reach EOL (end of life) there will be a tsunami of interest in Devuan.  And Devuan must prepare for this stress test.  Thousands and thousands of experienced sys-admins will be inquiring on the differences.  On the other side Artix is still the secret weapon few know about.  Artix seems to be further down the development path before it announces its first official stable distribution than Devuan has ever been.  Artix seems to be maturing within a small community of users.  People from Manjaro-OpenRC, Arch-OpenRC, Arch-Bang, Parabola, Void, seem to be taking an interest already.  The problems uncovered seem to be minute and negligible.  Developers seem to be active and responsive in peoples’ questions as the FAQ is getting wealthy of relieving continuous repetition of what is what.  As the testing repository is getting nearly ready, the unstable counterpart seems to have evolved as well.  The freedom of choices seems to be endless.  The installer has not received a single revision as it doesn’t seem to need any.  It comes with a base, an i3 desktop, and an LXQT, preconfigured script, but still allows you to make a choice of packages before or after the base installation.  I suspect the Artix developers didn’t take a vacation this year and all this work is paying off.

Meanwhile the systemd maze and web is expanding to choke all other distributions and forcing them to submit to a universal and centrally controlled system.  Debian instead of admitting defeat is eagerly trying to become the central part of this monopoly but with little warning to their faithful users.  In a few years it won’t matter much which systemd-based distribution you use as it will all be one system with no variation and with the inherent inability to configure anything on your own.  Only time will tell us whether we are wrong or not.

28 thoughts on “Will the non-systemd community run out of steam?

  1. I really like Artix! However, I’m also in the process of testing Vector Linux…based on Slackware…with both 32/64 bit releases. Very light weight and without systemd. It might be a good choice for my old 32 bit Sony Vaio.


  2. Vector Linux (based on Slackware) i486, x86_64

    Very slow website or I caught it in a bad moment
    You may also want to try vuu-do or miyo 32bit with openbox


  3. Oh crack…I didn’t realize that I wasn’t signed in when I posted my first reply. This is MiyoLinux. 🙂 I should also say that Vector hasn’t updated their website to reflect the new releases yet (at least not as of this writing). Perhaps they’re updating it now is the reason for the site being slow; however, here’s the link to their forum’s announcement of the new releases with download links included…


  4. Debian ‘agreed’ when Ubuntu (Shuttleworth) ‘agreed’ to become the Fk’ed up equivalent of Fedora as an Alpha Tester for Redhat. Mark Shuttleworth now equates himself to a rat on a sinking ship.

    Hint: A Zapus is a rat … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapus




    As we come to the end of the alphabet, I want to thank everyone who makes this fun. Your passion and focus and intellect, and occasionally your sharp differences, all make it a privilege to be part of this body incorporate….

    We are a tiny band in a market of giants, but our focus on delivering free software freely together with enterprise support, services and solutions appears to be opening doors, and minds, everywhere. So, in honour of the valiantly tiny leaping long-tailed over the obstacles of life, our next release which will be Ubuntu 17.04, is hereby code named the ‘Zesty Zapus’.

    (“Alphabet” appears to mean Google is the dragon running the show. Redhat is the Rook (making more money for the VCs behind Google). The DOD is the Queen taking it from behind transferring tax dollars to the VCs.)


  5. Meaning I was recommending Miyo to try Miyo for a change 🙂
    Just try Vuu-do then!

    I see there is light, there is full, and there is live? I also see that openbox is available in the pkg list. But are the two isos just installers without live, and live is /w xfce?

    I am a bit tired of enigmatic distributions. The dynamic is repetitive. There is a small group of devs that get to work and rush to exhibit their product, they formulate a small circle of user/supporters, they don’t take time to document and explain much, nor do they allow users to contribute. Some such distributions have a forum as their webpage.

    If they want to keep their work hidden for their little circle of buddies why should I bother downloading three isos to just try it out.

    You look up something like Artix or Miyo, you find some videos of the installation and its process and you know what to expect. Maybe I am harsh on vector having others in mind, like antix/mx with 2 forums and no webpage.

    Should I mention I have downloaded major isos (8GB) and their minimalist desktops were at some weird resolution I couldn’t read a single entry in any menu, i3, flux, awesome .etc. I send email asking for a hint on what to do with my peculiar display mode and I never got a response. Should I say this is the second most popular arch based distro after arch itself?

    Read my article on philosophy and organization. There is a way for all this psychopathology of “devs” to be harnessed. It is called organization. The majority of them are totally incapable to communicate with non-devs. They would rather marry their hardware and communicate in assembly rather than with humans.

    So, is vector a product of this pathology or am I being harsh and not doing them any justice?


  6. This would be a good article but needs some elaboration for those who are not indoctrinated into the linux-mafia and don’t know who is who and why. I sense it has much substance and evidence but to “outsiders” it makes no sense. There has to be some historical flow of this evolution, some explaining and background of where things were and how they transformed to this ill state they exist today. Also the dynamics within those linux communities to keep critics silent and vanished.


  7. If you really want to know the history to which I allude, watch two Netflix movies (I think they are on YouTube, too):

    1) Revolution OS
    2) Something Ventured (this is the best of the two.)

    The main VCs are featured in both. Then you can go to their website(s) and look at the Board of Directors. You’ll find the likes of Al Gore and Colin Powell on at least one of them.

    (Remember when Al Gore said he invented the internet? You will soon understand why he said it. You’ll also understand who was politically connected enough to call the dogs against Bill Gates. “They” even kicked Gates clear out of computers to save his company from being dismantled. Forget about your ‘opinion’ of Gates or Windows. Just understand the players who had enough ‘power’ to send Bill Gates to Monsanto.)

    Shuttleworth is now being forced to bow his head to the masters of the universe.


  8. Do you think the legal system and the economic system could be reformed to avoid all this? I may not know the details you present but I have been suspecting that it is as bad as you imply.

    Yet a more naive question would be: Why do you think this is bad, isn’t it supposed to be this way for the hierarchy and the health of the empire to be maintained? Are you even more naive than me to believe such claims as free economy and free society?

    This all started long ago among a group of friends wanting a better system to play interactive games with each other. One of them being the founder of GNU. In an environment of sickness, death, and destruction, why would we expect any better evolution, and how do we return to roots wiser from the experience?

    Slackware, suckless, linux from scratch, BSD, what?
    When open and free software maintainers and developers run around with AstonMartins and Bugattis, should we honor their work?


  9. Do I believe legal / economic can be reformed?

    IMHO, those aren’t the biggest problem(s).

    The biggest problem(s) are the psychopaths who occupy ‘high places’ for the last 120 years. Especially since the JFK assassination. Eisenhower warned us, too.

    (No, Trump isn’t one of them. He hasn’t been hanging out in the Oval Office and Congress for the last 50 years. But, I bet you can identify a few who have decked the halls for that long.)


  10. Any psychopath or mad man or crazy-woman that occupies a “position” within the structure is incapable of changing the overall structure. The problems you point out above, which resemble a conspiracy but it is actually business as usual, is a result of this structure. This was designed to produce profits by any means necessary. Those are the means you are explaining. If it was a system based on justice and equality there would never be any profit.

    So, as long as RH, and the German psycho, Debian, et.al are allowed to screw everyone legally, lacking any morality other than holly profitability, your argument is full of holes. You are not proposing anything by pointing out reality (as it really is, I admit) in a naive way, implying it could possibly be otherwise in an ideal world (that’s just a picture painted by media to keep you under the boot). You must be able to do better than that, go one skin level deeper.

    You want to hear a story? Back in the early 90s IBM sold a records system to Baltimore City police for more than a million $ in an “open bid” system. That is what they call an existing system designed by IBM (half ass design) with all the specs supplied for an public supply bid. Nobody else could possibly replicate the same specs within timelines. The system never worked, the technicians inside the City were furious. Nothing happened. The same system was sold by IBM to Mexico City, a city of multiple times higher population and criminal records, for half a mil. The system there was a little better, it did some things it promised couldn’t do others. Mexico issued an arrest warrant for the IBM-Mexico president who fled overnight through the border under fake ID to avoid arrest.

    Did you know about this? No, probably. Do we know how many hundreds of stories like this we don’t know about? And that is about informational systems. Should we try another industry?

    It makes you dizzy, doesn’t it? But it is not because the psychopaths rule, it is because the structure is such that psychopaths are allowed to destroy, to kill, to exploit and oppress. No moral, healthy person could possibly have the stomach to do so much to innocent but naive people. It takes some real monsters to do what those powerful and famous people, and real shitheads in the media to portray them as angels.

    Is there a way out?
    Are you really looking for a way out?
    Are you ready to take the red pill, or do you stick with your blue M&Ms?

    Please try not to be pissed at me telling you so but try to separate reality from the simulation of a just world and democracy. When you do you might make real friends. It is never too late, but reality hurts.

    Thank you, and please try to fill all the blanks on the story and make it more coherent so someone who knows nothing more than playing solitaire on Windows XP can understand. I think it is important for the whole story to be told.


  11. [[[ It makes you dizzy, doesn’t it? But it is not because the psychopaths rule, it is because the structure is such that psychopaths are allowed to destroy, to kill, to exploit and oppress. No moral, healthy person could possibly have the stomach to do so much to innocent but naive people. It takes some real monsters to do what those powerful and famous people, and real shitheads in the media to portray them as angels.]]]

    I know more about this subject than anyone. You’re statement above proves it.

    It’s a psychopathic system because psychopaths created it. IBM CEOs are not excluded from the list. And, they buy their puppet psychos in DC — or even your city govt or even your church elders… to build that wonderful system.

    As far as my delivery of that truth to “solitaire players”, I feed them what they need to know. I am merely a guide.

    If they have any real interest, they’ll take the initiative and figure out the rest for themselves.

    BTW, Al Gore is at the top of the Google Pyramid.


  12. MORE PROOF that Ubuntu/Debian loyalists have been enslaved by Google/RedHat is contained in the Mark Shuttleworth comment of October 24th, 2017. Their goal: Turn Debian/Ubuntu and derivatives into the next Android OS. It will be worthless in the traditional datacenter in due course.


    TITLE: Beavering away at the brilliantly bionic 18.04 LTS

    QUOTE: For those of you with bimodal inclinations, there’s the official upstream KUBERNETES-on-Ubuntu spell for ‘conjure-up KUBERNETES’ with bijou multi-cloud goodness. We also have spells for OpenStack on Ubuntu and Hadoop on Ubuntu, so conjure-up is your one-stop magic shop for at-scale boffo big data, cloud and containers. Working with upstreams to enable fast deployment and operations of their stuff on all the clouds is a beamish way to spend the day.



    QUOTE: Red Hat was one of the first companies to work with Google on Kubernetes, even prior to launch, and has become the 2nd leading contributor to Kubernetes upstream project. Google donated the Kubernetes project to the newly formed Cloud Native Computing Foundation in 2015.

    CONCLUSION: With the next release of Debian/Ubuntu, Debian/Ubuntu will officially become largest ‘WalMart’ DISTRIBUTORS of Kubernetes. YOU are an ALPHA-TESTER for Google, RedHat, and the DOD.


    People need to get a clue.



    A node is a worker machine in Kubernetes, previously known as a MINION. A node may be a VM or physical machine, depending on the cluster. Each node has the services necessary to run pods and is managed by the master components. The services on a node include Docker, kubelet and kube-proxy. See The Kubernetes Node section in the architecture design doc for more details.

    From this day forward, now you know that a SYSTEMD SYSTEM is a MINION SYSTEM of Google/RedHat/DOD.

    MINION: Definition: min·ion
    a follower or underling of a powerful person, especially a servile or unimportant one.


  14. IMHO, I don’t mind at all. Note that I am not associated with Devuan.

    MY ADVICE: Spread the word to everyone you know. Join up with the Devuan crew. Encourage everyone else, too. Last, but not least, fork Ubuntu 14.04 and/or Wheezy (instead of Jessie) and start from there.

    WHY? Google/Redhat has coopted and enslaved the users of Debian/Ubuntu at the same time. Google gets to rule the world. Redhat gets to milk the DOD and companies of all sizes. End users and developers enjoy life as a pawn on VCs chessboard.

    (Note that the biggest of these VCs are writing checks from Rockefeller Brothers and College Endowment funds — while they enslave the grad students, too.)

    Gnome and KDE have a problems, too. But that’s another subject.


  15. ALSO, note that the last “clean” system existed at the time 14.04.2 or 14.04.3. I know for a fact that 14.04.4 and 14.04.5 were already tainted and the SystemD crap began.

    At this time, we have a chance to ‘stop’ the spread of SystemD in its tracks. But, any attempt cannot wait any longer. In addition, any attempt must start at Wheezy/14.04 as stated. Not Jessie.


  16. PS. I don’t know anything about Artix. However, my analysis stands about the Wheezy/14.04 starting point.


  17. Pingback: Ubuntu, red-hat, fedora, google, debian, dod, MS-Monsanto? | systemD-free linux community

  18. By no chance to I want to discourage anyone to stop writing on this column, but as I found the discussion of Jack on the Beanstack and punkznotdead very interesting I made a separate post where I moved all the comments to https://sysdfree.wordpress.com/158/

    On the same subject of the members conspiring to advance mutual interests surrounding the systemd stranglehold on linux I would propose for the following comments to be blaced on that other topic.

    So see everyone there


  19. Devuan is just the continuation of wheezy really. It only incorporates things from jessie, stretch, buster, that are systemd free, edits some pkgs to point to alternative dependencies (like vden, eudev, etc.). AntiX/MX are also developing their debian fork without systemd/gnome etc. Whether you start with wheezy and go to Devuan jessie/ascii or start by converting Debian jessie to it you end up with an identical system.
    Unless you have specific criiticism on them you can’t deny their existence and propose a 5 year old distribution.

    Artix is doing the same thing to Arch, and are doing an excellent job. They use openrc. Obarun is about the same but uses S6. then there is void, vector, parabola and redcore/gentoo.


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